e-collar controversy - Page 6

Victoria Stillwell...The British Bee....

Q Man
Still no idea who she is does she have a pen name
Steve1

The e-collar is a great tool...Used in the hands of an experienced trainer it's as good as any...Used in the wrong hands...it can cause damage like anyother...The answer is to know how to use the tool your about to use...Any collar...be it a Choke Chain...Fur Saver...Prong Collar...E-Collar or anyother...CAN cause damage...It all comes down to who's doing the controlling...

~Bob~

From the TV Program..."It's Me or the Dog"...

Ya know, I hadn't seen this thread for a couple of days and saw the bantering and arguing going on.  All I can say is, WHAT A REFRESHING CHANGE!  At least it's an argument about training!  Love it, have at it!  Almost seems like the "old board" is back, LOL.

I will say for off leash, it is heaven. I use to use heavy guage fishing line and have the scars to prove it on the back of my knee, I was so lucky I did not cut my leg off, sliced right thru a pair of levis!  One thing about dogs, if you are around them enough you do get a few bumps and bruses.

 Sueincc : Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.  Clear, concise and to the point. I would be interested in hearing the answers of others who have used this tool. 

 

Qman: I agree with you in regards to the misuse of tools. If used correctly, I believe all tools can be used without inflicting pain onto an animal. Unfortunately, many people haven't a clue how to apply the use of a tool, safely and effectively in a training program. They are often used as methods to severely coerce dogs into compliance - this I am strongly against.  Though I choose not to use training collars, I respect the opinion of those who do use them.....as long as they use them appropriately and do not rely on them as the cornerstone of their training regime. I enjoy learning about the proper applications of these training aids.

Good thread, I hope more people add to it.

GSD Travels, I suggest this DVD. Jim was doing e-collar in my area, before anyone knew what it was. I think he is done with Police  work and just training gundogs now. I'll leave it at suggesting a DVD. I'm no trainer but I do use an E and it hasn't ruined one of my dogs yet. Anyone who wants to call it a crutch or lazy mans device, so be it. I don't have the energy to give a shit anymore.




http://www.dobbsdogs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=513

GSDtravels writes:  "Well, many on here have stated how or when NOT to use an e-collar, but none ever goes into how to use it properly. I have one and don't use it because I don't want to use it incorrectly. There are no classes that I have found locally and I know none that use it, other than for "problems". So, how do you learn? What ARE the proper uses? Where do you find info?"

Schutzhund USA magazine had just this information in the last issue, so the information is not a secret and is certainly out there.  It explained that it is an extension of the leash.  Most trainers have the dog wear the collar for up to 2 weeks before it's ever used.  The dog only wears the collar.  It is turned off.  When you start, you use it in conjunction with a leash correction.  Set on the lowest setting.  Some dogs only ever need pager, or setting at 20.  You do a leash correction and a nick at the same time. 

"If you use a low setting, why are there multiple settings and when do you use it at the highest, if ever?"

There are multiple settings because all dogs are different.  I have a big 90 lb. male who responds at 30 with an ear flick - enough to serve as a correction, that's all he needs.  30 was initially; now 20 or pager.  But I'm sure there are some dogs out there who need a higher setting.  INITIALLY.  So even though I never go above 30, the remote can go higher.  My dogs don't need it, someone else's dogs may totally blow them off at 30 or higher, and one day I might have a dog who needs a higher setting.  That's why they're made with a wide range of settings.

Bernhard Flinks in a seminar pointed out that properly used, an e-collar is not like a prong collar, which bruises.  He said we don't see the bruises under the fur, but those collars can bruise, and you know what that feels like for days afterwards if you have a bruise and it gets touched.  So how do you think the dog feels when it's had non-e-collar corrections, and then works for the next days with bruises?  That hurts a lot more than an e-collar does.  I thought that was a pretty good point.