Shiloh Shepherds? - Page 2

I don't care if you call it a breed or a pink polka dog but this kind of "ethics"

"("By the late seventies I had over a hundred dogs in kennel, and produced dozens of litters per year." kennel of origin history) and is a very large commercial producer of animals ( averaging 20 litters a year) who is willing to sell you "Puppies with serious faults, such as: gun shyness, severe under bite, multiple minor faults, or a diagnosed/physical handicap (such as a heart murmur)," for a mere $1000 from http://www.newzionshilohs.org/nzsPolicyPrices.htm "

makes me puke. Then when you combine it with all her lying crap about GSD - yes I will speak up and call a POS a POS.

Sunshiller, you claim a rate of 11 % CHD as Tina for decades has claimed lower CHD rates - yet all without proof. Where is the public db with the dog's name, age, hip status such as you can get in OFA or SV. I don't care if you use OFA, a stamps, bva or even Pennhip ( tho there are many many questions wh have not been answered re that) but let's see the info - oh but wait you can't do that can you. IT turns  our that for decades the ONLY one "reading" the xrays was Tina herself - not a vet - not a board certified radiologist or orthopedist and definetely not any INDEPENDENT health registry ( as opposed to the one you front which is owned and run by guess who - Tina) I note on the page I went to it has less than1500 hits so not even used very much by the ISSR people.

OP all I can say is do your homework and research and research and research. This scam has been running from the 60s and the reason there are so many "splinters" in this so called breed is because people wake up and realize the level they have been taken for.

oh but wait you can't do that can you. IT turns our that for decades the ONLY one "reading" the xrays was Tina herself - not a vet - not a board certified radiologist or orthopedist and definetely not any INDEPENDENT health registry


So, where is YOUR proof of what you say? I've heard this before, and actually asked Tina about it. She said ALL her breeding dogs are OFAd or Penn Hipped. Fred Lanting is consulted when she has doubts or questions about the results, and he has actually posted on the forum on hip issues.

ALL Shilohs that are being used for breeding MUST pass OFA or Penn Hip. Sometimes an exception is made if the problem is thought to be the result of an injury. (This is when she will ask Fred to have a look at the x-ray.)

What made people think she 'read' the x-rays is she would do what many experienced breeders do. She'd look at the X-rays before they were sent in, and if the hips looked really bad, she wouldn't bother sending them! Why waste the money, right?  Heck, I have a tiny, tiny fraction of Tina's experience, and even I could tell my bitch's hips weren't good before the vet sent the x-ray to OFA! (This was my GSD bitch. The results came back with mild dysplasia (subluxation) in one hip.)

As for the genetic task force results, I'll have access to that info when I pass the course to become an ISSR licensed breeder!

Believe me, VFK, I'm not as naive or gullible as you think!

SunSilver you seem to be a nice lady.. But you have drank way too much Shilo koolaid.  Do some research on the truth not what Tina says.  Call around her old kennel area in NY check the legal records. A mutt is a mutt and adding a malamute to a GS creates a mutt. You appear to be very nice but maybe just fell for the Shilo Circus...

Sunshill,

You know the nice part about open databases is that they are open. You should have let your fingers do the walking. In offa you can pull up the entire Shiloh population and sort by year of result. I did just that and looked at the last two and a half years since Tina says " She said ALL her breeding dogs are OFAd or Penn Hipped."

If breeding ave 20 litters a year ( Tina's quote and matched by ISSR stats 1990 -2009 485 litters bred) Say average of six pups per liitter so on an average 120 dogs a year produced. If she xrayed ONLY 10% ( tho from her preaching one is led to believe she xrays everything) that would mean 12 dogs a year. I only came up with 17 in the last 2 and a half years so roughly 7 dogs a year getting xrayed which is closer to 5 % of population. Where is that vaunted LMX program. These are the founder's dogs - they should have the deepest records. NONE of them had vertical pedigrees.

625 listings for Shiloh dogs from January 2008 to May 2010

17 dogs with Zion kennel name ( Barber kennel name)
Note ( #18 outside of date range included as a full sibling)
Results also include prelims only

Good or better hips AND elbows - Three
Good or better hips BUT elbows not reported ( i.e. likely not pass) Two
Fair hips BUT elbows not reported (see above) - Two
Dysplastic hips = Three
Normal elbows only reported ( i.e. likely hips not pass and not reported) or reported with dysplastic hips -Five
No hips or elbows reported -Four

So out of 14 dogs reporting either hip or elbow or both - looks to be a rate of 50% dysplastic to me.
21% has normal hips and elbows
28% had normal hips but no elbow rating
36% had normal elbows but no hips rating (therefore highly likely dysplastic until proven otherwise)
21% were dysplastic


1.dob 07/21/08 dor 08/26/09 result cardiac normal no hips or elbows reported
2 01/13/08 02/01/10 cardiac normal elbow normal no hips reported brother shown next
3. 01/13/08 03/25/09 hips prelim only fair note vertical pedigree shows no other animals so much for LMX
4. 12/21/07 12/21/09 hips good elbows normal vertical pedigree no info tho hald siblings show from unamed sire that's the next 5 dogs
5. 10/12/07 11/26/09 cardiac normal elbow normal no hips reported full sister follows
6. 10/12/07 11/25/09 hips good elbows normal
7. 11/25/07 12/03/09 hips good elbows normal
8. 02/01/08 12/04/09 prelim only elbows normal hips borderline unilateral right
9. 02/01/08 06/03/09 prelim only hips moderate nothing else tested
10. 01/06/08 01/17/10 hips only fair
11. 12/02/08 01/27/10 cardiac only normal
12. 10/12/07 12/04/08 prelim only hips good nothing else done & no vertical pedigree info
13. 12/03/06 12/12/08 cardiac normal elbow normal no hips reported two full siblings follow
14. 12/03/06 02/10/10 hips excellent no report on elbows no vertical pedigree info on nay of 3
15. 12/03/06 03/06/09 elbows normal no hip report
16. 12/03/06 04/22/08 thyroid reported normal no other results
17. 01/12/04 01/29/08 hips moderate unilateral left full sibling follows
18. 01/12/04 05/25/05 thyroid only reported normal



1. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1382726#animal
2. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1406882#animal
3. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1364040#animal
4. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1401404#animal
5. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1348009#animal
6. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1396439#animal
7. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1398985#animal
8. http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1397590#animal
9. http://www.offa.org/display.h

designer breed is right.  same as all the oodle/poo breeds (cockapoo, chipoo, labradoodle, ect).  you want to know how many times I've been told someone's little maltipoo was a RARE breed with papers??? LOL, its just a mutt! maltese/poode mix with crap CKC papers put on it.

designer breed is right.  same as all the oodle/poo breeds (cockapoo, chipoo, labradoodle, ect).  you want to know how many times I've been told someone's little maltipoo was a RARE breed with papers??? LOL, its just a mutt! maltese/poode mix with crap CKC papers put on it.

In 20 or 30 years, we will see the exact same discussion of the Shepadoodle, Labradoodle and every other new designer, oh, excuuuuuse me, "breed in developmen" breed. The Shilo is definitely in the same boat. But, as Sueincc points out, some folks want that look, temperament and [lack of] drive. To each his/her own. I would note, though, that Tina's club is not the only Shilo organization, as there are at least three different registries, now. * have no doubt that one or more of them will seek AKC recognition in the next ten years.