ED and OFA - Page 15

OGBS
Another Liar on here and you are one of the worse kind , You did not misspell that word you are covering up your mistake by laughing about it and putting a  load of stupid laughing captions on the thread, You really are an apology for a man, My last post sums you up perfectly, i have your number,  From now on when i post on one of your threads i will reply to you as the COVER UP ARTIST' no matter what you say, or how long you say it, you have been found out and the other Guys know it. 
Carry on with your childish tirades you make yourself look sillier every time you post You are not senile you have not yet reached Maturity and You are not fit to lick my boots in any way, Dogs included.
One final thing OGBS, You call me a Senile old Man, Well if you remain as fit and in the condition that i am at 70 years old, you will be laughing then and thanking your lucky Stars, and if you reach that age you will think back on your remarks
Steve1

Well Guys Back from taking the Bitch out for a 6 mile Walk, Not to bad for a Senile OLD HAS BEEN i think,
Mind you i lost my way a couple of times although i have walked the route a hundred times, I must be getting past my sell by date as OGBS says i am.
However i am at a disadvantage with you Guys, i have again been to sleep whist you post and another twp pages all about a Funny Old Man.
Red Sable Thank You .
Sock Thanks but i can take care of these Two People I exclude Equalizer from that because he has not said  no more, But OBGS is still in his Childhood,
NONA is the other one i am referring too and YES, the word Too is in the right order and context, it is not the word spell  To' in this instance but i am not going to bandy about words in the right context that is for children to play about with. more important issues for me to get straight
Nona'  Now you can put me right on this or someone else can because i am not familiar with the Rules of governing Dog Bodies who run it in your country
You say you get the Hips OFA by a Vet i guess just as we do over here, Tell me why you do not ask that Vet to send the X-Rays away to have them Officially graded by the Professors at the place they are sent to wherever that may be.
The Vet who takes the X-Rays in not official and you cannot put on your website that the findings he gave you as correct, He simply is not qualified to do that. Now i am taking it that X-Rays of the Joints are done in a similar way to over here in Belgium and Germany,
Once sent away to the Governing Body they then Stamp the results on the Original Pedigree with an Official Stamp, There is no way these results can be changed
It must be a similar system in the USA you cannot be that much different to Europe
Not enough space so i am continuing this post below

Continued

So as i said above why do you not get the results of your Vet officially recognized, i fail to understand why not UNLESS all was not well with the Joints of the Dog or Dogs, You can never put into print that the Joints are Good or Bad because unless the results are stamped they are not valid least ways not over here, And i really do not think the USA bodies are that backward to us. No' they certainly are not.
Sock'  said it in his above post and i find it strange indeed why you do not finish the job correctly
Over here when we have the Hips X-Rayed we now have the Spine done as well so that makes it HIPS , ELBOWS , SPINE and DNA, the spine does not go official it has not been asked for by the Powers to be, but i get it done for my satisfaction for a Dog who puts in a lot of effort into its work needs to be sound in every way and i do it for the Dogs welfare for my peace of mind as well.
 Also and i think it may have already been said somewhere on here TWO separate People give there findings and result on the Hips and Elbows separately in Belgium and Germany. and we get two signatures on the Pedigree with two different stamps
The DNA is also done by some other section to the Joints. Thats about it Nona and it is not the Rambling on of a Senile Old Man, I do know what i am talking about
Steve1

Steve, most vets in the USA are not qualified to take x-rays that are even readable, let alone rule in/out certain conditions.  Most people who really care about a good reading go to a specialist (radiologist) who is no different than the people on the OFA panel.  I had my dog looked at by two people (both took their own films - hips, elbows, and spine) and both came to the same conclusion about my dog, before I ever sent films to OFA.  I really don't care what OFA says, I already know whether or not my dog is dysplastic and know what other conditions he may or may not have.

Just because someone does not have a "stamp" or whatever on their pedigree does not mean they didn't x-ray their dog, or just took their dog to one regular vet for a crappy x-ray and inconclusive diagnosis.  My top priority is my dog's health and getting a thorough diagnosis, not getting an official stamp for my website or pedigree.

Why sure SockPuppet, don't you know?  Why bother sending in the xrays when your puppy buying client base is clueless? I mean then when your dog comes back as dysplastic you would  have to figure out a whole new excuse to justify the continued breeding of a sub par dog.  Same thing with breed testing.  If your dog can't cut it on the field, then what are you going to do?  You see, this way you can pretend you know what you are talking about and eschew things like schutzhund (while at the same time hypocritically bragging about all the titles in the pedigree).  When you don't have to prove breed worthiness,  you can claim anything, and if you have a good enough snake oil sales pitch, the gullible and the clueless fall for it every time.  Ethics, smethics, who cares when you can make some bank?  lol, lol

OFA is not perfect and mistakes can be made. For certification there is also Penn Hip and SV available. I doubt either of those are perfect in every instance. It is what it is.

As stated above, anyone offering breedings to the public will have either certifications or excuses.

There is really no middle ground.

LONG debate that I fear we have to get back on track before it gets deleted.  I think it's a good topic to allow to stay on the PDB as many still don't send elbows to OFA and maybe this will enlighten someone new... and to spines, which has been brought up. 

I am going to guess that some of those who send hips first, and upon passing do elbows, do so because they do the hips w/o anesthesia.  The cost is likely less than $100, whereas to have the dog under and do everything it can be ~ $300.  Big difference for the price savy if it's just a pet or they have no confidence the hips will even pass.  IF the dog is under for the hips, then the argument not to do elbows doesn't hold any water for me as the vet likely only charges ~ $50 extra to do elbows, and to send them in later, seperately to the OFA would be another $35 and whatever the cost of anesthesia is.  So if you are looking to get both OFA'd and the dog is already under, it only makes since to do both at the same time, unless your vet has a crazy price system.

As for breeders not submitting OFA's at all because your radiologist or you yourself have a lot of experience and knowledge... I fully agree that OFA is a hoot at time (and not in a good way).  Due to positioning and the panel a dog can move a full grade or TWO!  A dog can incorrectly be labeled dysplastic or not.  BUT regardless of what you know about your dog, and what you can convince those that buy from you, by not officially OFAing your stock you leave a blank in future progeny's pedigree/records.  Someone that wants to buy a dog that has your lines 3 generations back (but is not your breeding), may not because they have no idea how their hips were, and if in fact they were even x-rayed, as they most likely aren't going to contact you.  If you put the time, dedication, and study into your lines and your breeding stock, then do them a good service and make their passing joints a permanent record that you can be proud of them to carry on your kennel name.   

Elbows can be done without anesthesia too, but not by all vets.  The vet (along with his crew) that  I go to for OFA xrays are pretty well known for being able to get very good placement on hips and elbows quickly and with no anesthesia, even on dogs other vets would have to sedate (like mine).   My dogs films were perfectly positioned,  he received OFA GOOD rating on hips and NORMAL on elbows.

Liesjers
I think you have read a little wrongly into my post
What happens is this, I take my dog to a well known recognized Vet who has done 1000's of X-Rays on the Dogs Hips and Elbows and this particular Guy lives in Holland, He is very good so much so that the Germans go to him one Guy drove 1200 kms each way to him to get his Dogs Joints X-Rayed by this Vet
However what happens when the Vet is happy with the Pic's if not he will do them again, He will look at the Joints and tell you exactly what he thinks, if they will pass or not only his opinion but an experienced one
If he says to me NO' i do not think they will pass, then he leaves it up to me to decide if i want them sent to the SV for verification or leave it as it is
Well Common sense says that not to send them in to the SV if they are not good or passable in his opinion, So what is left for the Dog, No Change it can still carry on as a Pet or still work BUT that is as far as it goes, It can never be Korclassed or get a Breed Survey
When you have the Vet send the X-Rays to the SV they are sent to be looked at by Professor's in that field supposed to be Experts and if they have that title then they deserve the respect that goes with it, They then Sign and Stamp the results on the original Pedigree If the Dog Fails then that is also Stamped and Signed on the Official Pedigree, Without this information you cannot get the Dog Breed Surveyed or Korclassed,  Plus if you sell the Dog you have Guaranteed Proof of its Joints and the new owner will expect to see it,
The Pedigree is very important over here For Trials and Tests you make with your Dog,
For instance tomorrow i drive to Germany with Izzy to take her AD test the 20km cycle ride endurance test, a fair drive then the test, They want to see my V.V.D.H Registration Card that i am a Member, My SV number to prove i am a member, Izzy's Health Vets Book, Her Two Work Books, and her original Pedigree, so thats how it works over here, I hope i do not forget them
Steve1