ED and OFA - Page 2

 Rik, what horrendous odds. Makes sense that the one w/2 bad elbows didn't limp. I bet that would've changed with time though as arthritis set in. Sad story. 

5mos has been my experience as well. 

I wold never consider a young dog or adult without H/E certification or at least an evaluation. If considered for breeding, I also want to see several generations of h/e certification.

It appears that spine will be the next requirement by the SV. All this is no guarantee one won't see these issues, but certainly a good tool for evaluation.

Jenni, the pups with one elbow limped to compensate. The one with two bad could not compensate. As you say, it would have shown up eventually.

Q Man, I don't think the AKC requires anything. 

SUCHNO - GSD association in my country also requires not only hips but also elbows to be done.

 AKC requires NOTHING. The AKC is the biggest joke on the planet.

Rik, that's what I was saying; makes perfect sense that if both his elbows were bad, he wouldn't/couldn't limp to compensate. What do you think will happen in the future w/that sire and dam? 

With a Puppy 8 weeks old , It is in the Lap of the Gods as to whether it will have good Hips and Elbows, but i am certain that the Up Bringing of the Pup does greatly to the welfare of the Young Dogs Joints and i mean by the way it is Fed and Exercised,
Should i buy an older Dog it will have  its Hips Elbows Spine and DNA certified correct before all else or before i would consider buying it
I am 100% sure that all responsible Owners should have there Dogs Joints Certified good or bad the Owner  needs to know so they know what or how much work they can do with the Dog if its Joints are not up to standard that is only fair on the Dog and i do not mean specially for the ScH Sport, But some people just will not part with there money to do it there is no excuse not to do so
Steve1

jenn, the damn in first litter had 11 puppies. 10 certified H/E. The sire will be a very big winner at this year GSDCA National and has already done so in Canada's National this year.

My friend, after many years (25) said this it it for him in AKC. His exact words were "there is no way to escape these genes of death" and that is his quote, not mine.

Rik

 I fear your friend is right. Sure, WL dogs have these issues too, OCCASIONALLY, but to have one litter that is so bad is truly not fair to the dogs. ED is a painful affliction and when you're producing that many, you really have to think about the pain your're causing the puppies born to such a prominent carrier of ED. Sounds like the sire is the real culprit in this case, or the combo this time was a bad one. Was there more than average linebreeding in this litter?

 

Sorry to stray from the general topic, but I think this is interesting. 

Steve1, I respectfully disagree that you're an irresponsible dog owner if you don't xray. That's like saying that if I don't get my son a full body scan to check for problems that may never show themselves, then I'm a bad mother. I also would not limit the exercise of a dysplastic dog- just the opposite, in fact. The WL dogs w/'bad" hips or elbows who don't know it do a heck of a lot better in life, longer, than the pampered housepet whose owners feel sorry for them and let them lie on the couch all day. The best medicine for HD/ED is to stay lean and fit and exercise. Heavy jumping? Probably not a good idea, but short of that, my philosophy is 'use it or lose it.' JMO

Jenn, these are AKC s/l not SV.

99.99% of winning AKC s/l are decended from 1 dog, Lance, so there is no escaping line breeding.

Just my personal opinion but I consider any breeding of non certified dogs to be irresponsible. Really does not matter for a pet not to be used in breeding.

Rik

ED from joint inconguity and will always result in DJD even following surgery. There is no ED equivalent to THR. The dog will likely be lame due to carrying 70% of the weight on the fore-assembly.

I know of a well-known stud dog who competed on the USA World Team and who suffered from ED. The owner conditioned him with lots of swimming. His hips did OFA certify clear. He passed the AD and was KKl2 for reasons other than ED.

Also, a dog can have OFA borderline DJD and srill receive an NZ on his hips from the SV. There is the possibilty that borderline ED may result from trauma or over exercise of a growing dog.

Personally, I would not breed dogs with "fast normal" or NZ elbows. Of course, this could mean not breeding to certain German Siegers.

I attended a club seminar with Dr. Alida Wind who did the seminal work on ED using the Bernese Mountain Dog as a research model. She looked at x-rays of a dog with OFA rated ED due to a very subtle DJD and said she found nothing wrong with them and would not refrain from breeding the batch.