Definition of Civil Drive for Police/P. Protection Dogs - Page 17

duke,

 I have to go but I will try to explain.......

max , when you say it used to be so simple , before drives were introduced

do you think of it as a bad thing that there

Nothing simple here,,, other than the terminology.....

The foundation of the breed lies in the hands of those
people who understand the history and the dynamics.

Foundation dogs,...like Hans tries to maintain are not just
good, but imperative to be able to hand the next generation
what was given to us.

Hard, soft, and sharp....these are power words full of meaning.
If you discuss them together, you can see how they relate to one
another. That's how they were formed.....Very, very good place to
start. So simple is not in my vocabulary.

I agree with Jim and Daryl, but think you should start a new thread on this. 

hans If you say it like that it makes sense , but everybody puts a different picture with the various terms , add the translationproblems with that and you have babbelonia

 Ok, I have some newbie questions.
I am trying to learn the definitions of the different drives and this post has been very informative but confusing as well.
Is civil drive a component of defense drive?
Is the term "Hard" used only as a way to describe a dogs level of defense drive?
How would you describe a dog that has a low defense drive but never gives up its toy or is willing to track from dawn to dusk ? Tenacious? High prey drive?
How do you test a puppy (6-8weeks of age) for the defense drive? What would you see ?
When I see an add for a litter of puppies (2-3 weeks old)  that says these puppies will make great PP, LE  and SAR dogs are they basing this primarily on it's parents and past litters?

C
 PS: If you want to send me a PM with reading materials suggestions I would love that

SP,

For pet owners and new people,
Der Schutzhund was a scientfic guide into the Old world German
practices of breeding and training of the GSD.

Lets see what Armin Winkler says on the subject.

What impresses me about the discussion of drives every time I read Helmut Raiser's book is that he simply dissects the material on a scientific basis. He does not try to make the theory fit his practical techniques, on the contrary he willingly admits to his own past mistakes, and tries to improve his practical skill by better understanding the theory behind it. I will probably summarize the practical applications of these theories at some time in the future. For people who can't wait, the full length version is available in my translation of the book Der Schutzhund.

darylehret
I was thinking about your and my definition of a hard dog. And I realized that we are really describing the same type of a dog. Not overlapping all traits completely but mostly. The dog which I am describing will act like the dog which you are describing and vice versa.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com.

Not really "my" definition, but I think it's important to keep in mind the definitions that are commonly accepted and used by others when they are attempting to communicate with you.  You just can't take for granted that they intend the same meaning you're understanding them to say.

I don't very much like the idea of having multiple meanings with a single term either, and the same is often the case with "civil" as it is with "hard" in that respect.  FYI, just best to be aware of all the definitions you can.  I've also heard multiple meanings for "prey" drive, and multiple meanings for "hunt" drive, as well as others I'd rather not go into here.

The SWGDOG group that I posted above is composed of professionals that have banned together for the purpose of creating a unfied terminology for use throughout our government and local agencies.  They've carefully proposed their definitions at different intervals, then later reconvene to vote on whether or not to integrate them.  We, as breeders and sports enthusiasts might not agree with all of their defined terms, but I imagine it's difficult to please everyone.

The biggest problem I run into is the use of term
Negative reinforcement....
This term belongs to BF Skinner.
There are 4,

Positive, Negative,Aversive and Intermittent.

Negative is often confused with Aversive.

Negative is to  withhold Positive.

Aversive is physical discomfort.

Hard, soft and sharp...these are the old terms to describe
temperament.

Hard... was like Hans said....a dog that can take pain and not
back down.

Soft...has more to do with having a good mind, and not misjudging
a non threatening act.

Sharp...This is a dog that will not tolerate a lot of agitation.

I bred some sharpness from the old DDR lines off of Boarder
patrol lines to get a little more seriousness into what I had.
But depending  on what you breed you may need to find any
one of these traits.