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by klekoni on 19 November 2010 - 15:11
by djc on 19 November 2010 - 15:11
I have tried to stay out of this but some people are getting way too "overboard" with their comments: as is typical for this or any web board.
I know Andrea and Rainer VERY VERY VERY well and have been "friends" with them from their start. I have Apollo von Nimbus from their very first litter and adore him even though he is somewhat oversize . Apollo is my avitar dog. He is everything I wanted and knew he would be, except for the oversize and produces well, with not many oversize. I also have several more from them and have helped them sell MANY dogs here in the USA. In general they are very honest and trustworthy people. Here is seems that Andrea needed to take the time to gather the facts since she did not know the dog. This is a problem when breeders send their dogs to other people. To me the trust is not broken because she did not know and was told wrong information from a trusted source, ie: the "trainer". Where she is wrong is not taking responsibilty for the mistake and getting angry. Understandable, but it would have been very easy for her to clear it up, explain it and say it was a mistake, and not let it get this far. Andrea was NOT misleading on purpose.
I also know Ibrahim through phone and email and of course here. He is a VERy polite and honest man, who only wanted an answer. ANYONE would have felt the same as he did when he was surprised by a small dog. MOST would have been outraged and wanted to send the dog back or get their money back. Ibrahim was upset but only because he felt mislead and did not understand why he was told differently. PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDABLE!! Because of his nature, he did not WANT to make a big fuss ONLY get an answer as to why there was such a large discrepancy. When he did not get the answer it made him feel this was done on purpose because he was so far away and could do nothing about it. A simple answer would have been sufficient for him, which he did not get until he posted it here. By posting it here, YES, he was using this board to try to get an response. Guess what it worked!!! I don't blame him AT ALL! It is truly a shame that it had to go this far! I know he feels the same way and wishes he had not had to do this. Truth is even if Ibrahim had known the true height, he would have most likely still gone through with the sale because of the obvious quality of the dog as well as the great bloodlines. I repeat a simple answer and appology would have cleared it all up.
So, here we are with both sides. Both understandable.
Let this be a lesson to all to make sure, personally, of the facts on both sides and to communicate effeciently and in a timely manner. That's all.
by gucci on 19 November 2010 - 15:11
by nonacona60 on 19 November 2010 - 15:11
At least Ibrahim gave her the opportunity to handle it privately, which she chose to ignore....I don't consider that blackmail the course of action he took....It was her decision that led this here...There are some many others that post here, with the obvious intent to do harm or black mail someone...JMO
by djc on 19 November 2010 - 16:11
You NEED to go back and READ. Your understanding will come with READING ALL of the facts.
by Ruger1 on 19 November 2010 - 16:11
Klekoni,,,I am not insinuating a thing, simply scroll through your postings, you made it quite obvious what you are insinuating about Abrahims motives. IMO, your posts are disrespectful and offensive to Abrahims intentions and motivations regarding his reasons for taking his question public........I am done posting on this thread, my purpose was only to support the polite intentions of Ibrahim.....The rest is none of my business....
Deanna...: )
by Ibrahim on 19 November 2010 - 22:11
Klekoni,
I had no intention of blackmailing Mrs. Andrea, how could I !!!
Few months ago I contacted one American breeder who has excellent bloodlines and I was interested to buy a female GSD from her (I will not mention her name so no one thinks I am advertising for her), at the time she had two available, I made some questions and she answered them perfectly then she explained to me the strong points of each and the weak points of each, she asked me more questions than I asked her and at last she told me which one was a better choice for me, I didn't feel for a second she was rushing me, she even told me things about her puppy I wouldn't see in the picture and left the decision for me and I fascinated with her honesty decided to buy her puppy knowing all the bad and the good and she was very generous on the price. In the end and due to reasons from my side I did not take the puppy, she remained the same with me, not angry not offensive just friendly as ever and any time I get the right chance I know I can take a dog from her based on her recommendation even without seeing any pictures.
I can understand a breeder buying dogs from Germany but find it so strange for an average American to buy from abroad when professional & honest breeders are available locally I wish we had breeders in my place.
Anyhow the point: Is there a difference between what took place between me and that breeder and between me and Mrs. Andrea, I say yes a lot. I will not buy again from Mrs. Andrea but looking forward to have one from the other breeder one day either for myself or for a friend. Is this something that some may benefit from, on this board, maybe !!!
What is good about this site is equal opportunities and I used mine without lies or exagerating the facts, I respect all posters' views, think some are right and fair and few are not .
If I sensed that Red Sable, DebiSue, Pharaoh or Yellowrose of Texas at any point had a doubt of a bad ill behind my post I would have stopped it at the spot and the reason is that I know these members very well through their posts (not in person) and respect and value their thinking more than my ability to stand a little doubt from any of them. I didn't know Ruger1, Nonaconna60 and Lida much before but glad that I know them better now.
Klekoni, I don't know you and I don't know why you say what you said (though it is your right) so I will not close my polite question to Mrs. Andrea just because you don't approve of it, it will remain open but if you know Andrea that well and you're sure she would treat you better than she did with me please ask her to explain to you why she told me a wrong height and did not reply to my request and then I am ready to hear from you.
Ibrahim
by klekoni on 19 November 2010 - 22:11
What i took issue with was the action of bringing this into the public, veiled under so called "polite" or harmless intent. People lets not underestimate our intelligence. We all know why people do this. In order to force action or if that does not have that effect, then to mar or sully ones reputation indirectly. With such actions, third parties(us), rightly or wrongly then pass judgements, without truly knowing all the details, on such remarks(just read through some of the various individuals posts) and this is clearly wrong. Our society is not governed by any sort of kangaroo court such as can be found on some forums. That is what I object too. Plain and simple. I've said my opinion on this matter fwiw and therefore will not comment anymore..
by sting369 on 19 November 2010 - 22:11
I don't see what the issue with having a short dog is if the dog is effective at their intended function.
by nonacona60 on 19 November 2010 - 23:11
I dont think its about the ability of the dog....Its about being upfront when answering questions and/or standing behind what was said regardless of which position a person is in, such as a breeder or buyer....
Kelkoni,
I will make this next statement without sarcasm. Please don't think I am directing this at you because it is a very "in general" opinion and not directed at anyone...
you wrote.....
"With such actions, third parties(us), rightly or wrongly then pass judgments, without truly knowing all the details, on such remarks(just read through some of the various individuals posts) and this is clearly wrong."
I agree 100% with you on that....Thats why no one should pass judgment.... Just posting an opinion would be sufficient......The whole problem begins when someone passes judgment......Posting an opinion we can all share, maybe even agree with each other....But the option to agree to disagree is the one that we should all respect....Than perhaps all the trouble and drama on here might not be as plentiful. JUST MY OPINION.....
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