stick hits continued - Page 4

Oops - sorry - there is one more section of Cindy's message I missed in the last "con.t": My position on the WDA Board of Directors had nothing to do with your complaint not receiving more attention. If you think I have that much clout with the board you are sadly mistaken. As for no video’s or camera’s during the Breed Survey. That was the judge’s decision. He was not the first judge to ask that no photo’s or video’s be made of a breed survey. Had a video been taken, your dog would have failed the protection portion of the Breed Survey, and Steve’s helper work with your dog would have been validated. It still amazes me after 27 years in this sport, that when a dog does a great protection routine it is an excellent dog, but when a dog has a problem in the protection work, it was a crappy helper! Cindy Petersen

This needs to be the end of this topic. It is really amazing to me that the CLAN of Steve House can tell a story that is very untrue. The judge did me no favors and Steve did not either. The Judge saw what happened and he knows the truth. The judge told me to walk it off, he said nothing to my wife, the ones that are commenting are not just ones that were there but the buddies of the one that caused my dog injury. You have made yourselves look like fools and I hope that this never happens to you. Sandra

In summary: 1) A number of people (Steve, did you know you had an official CLAN?) who watched this event live recall the details far differently than you, and actually think that Steve and the judge gave your dog the benefit of the doubt. 2) We do NOT have a number of people (or another CLAN??) stepping up to support your version of this specific event. 3) We do NOT have a hoard or clan of people chiming in to say "YEAH - Steve is a lousy helper and injured MY dog with stick hits TOO!!" 4) Is it possible that Steve's "CLAN" actually consists of people who have trained with him, and/or presented dogs with him as the helper, and/or watched him work events as the helper, and respect his work??? So - the information is in....let the people decide.

K9Chess, No offense, sorry to hear about your situation, but take my advice and quit while you're ahead. You have probably just ended your dogs breeding careear by claiming it wasn't stepped on but came off the sleeve because it got a stick hit. Sheesh,,,,, might as well go neuter him now. For those reading this please don't ruin your dog by publicizing and confirming it's faults on an international forum.

I wasn't there and did not see it. I have been a schutzhund helper for many years, however. I am a currently certified helper. I have trained and worked hundreds and hundreds of dogs. Mostly show lines. I have done many trials and a few breed surveys. I studied helper work with some important world class teaching helpers in Germany and the U.S. I have taught many helpers who are now certified USA and WDA helpers. What I have to say next has a bearing on what has been claimed, i.e. that the dog was not being driven when it was stick hit. While such a thing is not physcially an impossibility, it is nonetheless impossible for it to have happened. No helper ever hits a dog if he is not first driving it. That is how stick hits are taught. You must first be driving the dog. It becomes automatic. But for the sake of argument, if some helper was stick hitting a dog while standing still, any judge, and I mean ANY judge would run the helper off the field, take his helper book away and report him and ask that he never be allowed to work dogs again. That being the case, those people who claim the dog was not being driven when it was stick hit either 1)do not know what they are talking about or 2)mistaken or 3) lying. It just could not have happened that way. As for the dog being stepped on. That surely could have happened. Helpers step on dogs toes occasionally. I have done it as well. It is impossible, if you work dogs long enough, not to have done it. Its like hitting your thumb while hammering nails. It eventually happens if you do it often enough. In all my years in schutzhund, I have only heard of one helper who I could say intentionally stepped on a dog's toes and it was not the helper in question, who by the way, has the reputation of being quite good. His strong suit is working dogs, but he also shows considerable talent with show-line dog. By the way, if a helper wanted to make a dog look bad, its a lot easier for him offer a bad bite or make your dog miss the sleeve than it is for him to get your dogs feet.

I have been reading this with some amusement. In seeing what I saw in training this week I had to comment. No I was not there at the trial.First of all it is a padded stick. How can the stick hit be too hard. I had two handlers wind up with the stick and hit each other without injury. The only possible way I see to injure the dog with the stick is hit him in the eye. I watch them make bad hits and the dogs stay on the sleeve. But today I had one of them step on the dogs foot. The dog yelped, came off the sleeve, bit the decoy in the leg then re-engaged the sleeve. As they are not expirienced in decoy work I make them where the bite suit pants for safety. Paid off today. My point is that if the dog is good, too hard of hit, stepped on toe, if it came off it should have re-engaged. yes I am training Police K-9's but these dogs are Sch trained. The one that got his toe stepped on is a SCH1. He re-engaged and if not for the bite suit pants the Decoy would have had something to remeber it by.

EDD IN AFGAN, It's amazing how all of that happened to you in one day, it gave us a good laugh anyway. Thanks

What is impossible and everybody that knows anything about protection knows when a dog engages on the sleeve both of his front feet are not on the ground, so it is amazing that he got his foot stepped on when they were not on the ground. And yes we do have medical documention on the injury.

K9chess, you have displayed your inexperience enough on this subject. ANy dog training at any level has probably had a foot stepped on at one time or another, It happens, the drive is a dynamic event with helper and dog moving and the dog trying to gain an advantage, they swing around in front the try to pull you to the ground their feet do hit the ground, its not uncommon for a foot to get stepped on. We try not to, but it happens get used to it. Any helper or handler with any experience knows for a fact this happens, now you want to keep claiming that it was the stick hits that caused your dog to come off the sleeve. I think someone already said you've announced it to an international community that your dog has a stick problem, NEUTER it and call it a pet. You continue to want to bash an absolutely exceptional helper who has the respect of many in this country, yet each time you keep cementing the fact in every readers brain that your dog has a stick problem. When you find yourself in a hole... QUIT DIGGING.

When you train dogs 8-10 hours a day alot can happen in one day. Especially with inexperienced handlers and decoys.