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by SportySchGuy on 12 January 2011 - 18:01
I think what Han's is saying is that old style Czech dog is a specific type of GSD and that only people who know what they are doing (and are trying to continue this type) know how to breed to keep that particular type. So it makes no difference if Fero or Zamp or whatever is bred into the lines because they are breeding to type not to nationality of dog. If certain dog with Fero supports that type and compliments the bitch to further that type then it is a true Czech dog.
It makes no difference if you agree or not IMO because you can either buy that type of dog or not...your decision.
Also, since nationality of dog makes not much difference but knowing what two dogs to breed together to achieve that type and knowing exactly what that type is....is paramount.
To do this correctly you have to have first hand knowledge of many many dogs in the pedigrees of the dogs you are breeding. Reading pedigrees and breed surveys will not suffice. The reason for that is dicipline involved in strict breeding program to achieve consistency in type. To me that is what makes a Czech dog .....Czech.
It makes no difference if you agree or not IMO because you can either buy that type of dog or not...your decision.
Also, since nationality of dog makes not much difference but knowing what two dogs to breed together to achieve that type and knowing exactly what that type is....is paramount.
To do this correctly you have to have first hand knowledge of many many dogs in the pedigrees of the dogs you are breeding. Reading pedigrees and breed surveys will not suffice. The reason for that is dicipline involved in strict breeding program to achieve consistency in type. To me that is what makes a Czech dog .....Czech.
by Don Corleone on 12 January 2011 - 18:01
SSG, agree with you to an extent. I'm not a total CZ or west type of guy. A good dog is a good dog to me. One of my best GSDs was a mix between CZ, DDR and West.
I just got the feeling that only they know how to do this. Which I find impossible unless you are strictly using your own studs and females. Otherwise, the person who bred the stud and female know how to breed the "czech" dog too.
by SportySchGuy on 12 January 2011 - 18:01
Obviously they do feel that they are the only ones that know how to do this.
Han's would have to answer the other question. What you are asking is how do they know that the Fero dog (example) would contribute to Czech dog type if they did not breed or raise and train it? right?
Personally I think it is hard enough to find a dog I like than to limit myself to one group of dogs. Hell....at this point I will even look at showlines....
.
Han's would have to answer the other question. What you are asking is how do they know that the Fero dog (example) would contribute to Czech dog type if they did not breed or raise and train it? right?
Personally I think it is hard enough to find a dog I like than to limit myself to one group of dogs. Hell....at this point I will even look at showlines....
.by sable59 on 12 January 2011 - 19:01
i agree with you don," agood dog is a good dog". i also know ,i think, what hans is saying, is that to get a 100% ck. dog it must contain all ck. bloodlines and no out crosses. i like the ck/ger. crosses. i think from this type of breeding a person gets more even temperament and with the equal % of prey and def. i personally like hans' dogs and can appreciate his work. yes,to the poster that said hans is still shoveling dog shit,he is. do you know for a fact that he has to do this in order to eat and pay the bills? i still wash our dog shit and i can assure you,i don't have to. i do it,as i am sure hans also, because i love these damn dogs.if i die with a water hose or a shovel in my hands getting the kennels clean,then i die happy!
by Don Corleone on 12 January 2011 - 19:01
Sable, that's what I thought he was saying. Hence, my post
by SportySchGuy on 12 January 2011 - 19:01
"i also know ,i think, what hans is saying, is that to get a 100% ck. dog it must contain all ck. bloodlines and no out crosses"
That is the opposite of what I think he is saying so I hope he (Hans) posts and is able to clear this up. I think this topic could warrant it's own thread. JMO
That is the opposite of what I think he is saying so I hope he (Hans) posts and is able to clear this up. I think this topic could warrant it's own thread. JMO
by Prager on 12 January 2011 - 20:01
Don I am sorry. I meant no harm. I have meant it as a joke. I have put there a smiley face. And no do not give me a pass on my English. I still want to learn. And you are right I do know that since my friends say I do speak backwards. I am subconsciously imposing rules of variable structure of Czech sentence onto English. I am sorry to butcher this beautiful language. I would like to do better. Also keep in mind that I have started to seriously learn English when I was 27-28 years old and that is much harder then to do start when you get born.
Never mind that though.
Sporty SchHguy I could not say that any better then you did.
As far as Fero vom Zeuterner Himmellreich goes it was easy to incorporate him since it was known what he produced and he produced well. Also if it would not click then the progeny would be eliminated.
As far as the Czech dogs go. I Just do not like people use term Czech dogs or old style Czech dogs, if the dogs were not bred by knowledgeable Czech breeders or with advice of knowledgeable Czech breeders. I can not take bunch of Italian car parts form different Italian cars and import them into USA and let USA mechanic to put it together and generate new car and call it an Italian sport car. I do not know but people from small countries are proud about products which they make and do not like other to deny them their name to it. It is the same thing like Czech beer Budvar or Budweiser. Czech leased the name to USA Anheuser Bush for 99 years. However 99 years is up and Anahuser Bush does not want to renew the agreement. So they just call their camel piss the finest American beer and call it by name of Budweiser which it is not. It is not by name, or by the beer itself.
USA can afford to be magnanimous and give away secrets around to China and such. But small couturiers do not have such luxury.
Look as many here know I will advice to people how to match these dogs and what they are all about. But it is not right if someone from Indiana breeds USA dogs for 3 generations and call them
Old style Czech dogs. That chops my hide. It is disrespectfull. Ask Germans what they will say if you would do it with German dogs.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Never mind that though.
Sporty SchHguy I could not say that any better then you did.
As far as Fero vom Zeuterner Himmellreich goes it was easy to incorporate him since it was known what he produced and he produced well. Also if it would not click then the progeny would be eliminated.
As far as the Czech dogs go. I Just do not like people use term Czech dogs or old style Czech dogs, if the dogs were not bred by knowledgeable Czech breeders or with advice of knowledgeable Czech breeders. I can not take bunch of Italian car parts form different Italian cars and import them into USA and let USA mechanic to put it together and generate new car and call it an Italian sport car. I do not know but people from small countries are proud about products which they make and do not like other to deny them their name to it. It is the same thing like Czech beer Budvar or Budweiser. Czech leased the name to USA Anheuser Bush for 99 years. However 99 years is up and Anahuser Bush does not want to renew the agreement. So they just call their camel piss the finest American beer and call it by name of Budweiser which it is not. It is not by name, or by the beer itself.
USA can afford to be magnanimous and give away secrets around to China and such. But small couturiers do not have such luxury.
Look as many here know I will advice to people how to match these dogs and what they are all about. But it is not right if someone from Indiana breeds USA dogs for 3 generations and call them
Old style Czech dogs. That chops my hide. It is disrespectfull. Ask Germans what they will say if you would do it with German dogs.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Prager on 12 January 2011 - 20:01
No Czech lines can incorporate other into theirs. Same as American can incorporate Czech dogs into theirs. But when Czech incorporate in their lines German dogs they call it Czech line and not German line. All I am asking is that other do the same.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by darylehret on 12 January 2011 - 20:01
So, when americans breed two german shepherds they should no longer be called "german" shepherds? I don't see why you don't just patent the term "czech dogs", because I've never heard you mention a single "approved czech dog" breeder, other than yourself and your partner. Not to be confrontational, I just think you're being ridiculous. And, even dragonGSD advertises "100%" czech puppies with west german blood in them.
by Don Corleone on 12 January 2011 - 20:01
Hans, no problem. Just didn't understand the drunk statement.
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