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by nanu on 16 January 2011 - 20:01
One of the reasons why many breeders do not use Old style Czech lines is because these are working lines and sport breeders are looking into and appreciate different qualities. There are some Czechs now who are interested in sport or show and are restructuring "Old style Czech lines" by breeding to out of the country dogs in order to turn them more "sporty" and "showy
Amen - Old Czech/Slovak or Czechoslovakian lines are unique and here are a few of my now deceased "old line" dogs to demonstrate:
Chassi z Travnikova dvora - by Ciro z Pohranicni Straze - NO sportiness here. She was #1 dog in the female's breed book and her sister #2.
Agar z Pohranicni Straze - only son of Gomo von Schiefferschloss in the US - I have frozen semen still
Dick Bethme - Heky, Agbar Bethme, Belinko lines
Ira Venusina Sopka - by Cordon An-Sat This bitch is in one pedigree of the "importer" discussed
Karin Policia - Olymp Policia's aunt - Danaru lines and A litter Pohranicni Straze
Moli Koz Mar
Cimi Iluze - by Gent Policia
Dyk Neresnicka dolina - by Tom Pohranicni Straze + SNB lines
Onda Ben Ju
Asia Al Zdor-
Pascha Ga Ta - produced a number of high titled and police working dogs in Europe
Titus z Pohranicni Straze - yes, had him until he died and collected cells for cloning.
So, a little example of the "old style" and a heartwarming trip down memory lane.
I appreciate hearing the clarification addressing what is Czech working dog vs. show vs sport.
The kennel suggested seems like an energetic young couple. I hope they do well.
Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com
by Prager on 17 January 2011 - 17:01
Hans
by wrestleman on 17 January 2011 - 18:01
by nanu on 21 January 2011 - 18:01
Wrestleman,
I have crossed my czech dogs with german dogs, namely german dogs who have produced for german police lines to stay with consistency of type. Assi vom Gevatter Teddybär is one German dog who's lines produced well as was Gary Grenzganger for older German working line dogs. I could start a new thread here. I do look at breeding similar to similar, never a non- complimentary cross.
Assi with Olymp Policia produced one of my favorite breeding males. Gary with the Moli Koz Mar line produced some wonderful police dogs. More of the reason for doing this is sometimes we need to have a pure outcross to keep the genetic pool diverse, ie, I have quality traits in both dogs yet both dogs bring a new genetic pool to the plate.
Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com
by Real Deal Dogs on 04 February 2011 - 12:02
When people refer to "Czech" GSD's, they are not refering to the nationality of the person who bred the dogs, nor do they refer to a Czech person giving his mate in the USA permission to do the breeding, it solely refers to the bloodlines from Czech.
To try and say that people with 100% Czech bloodline and Czech imoprted dogs cannot refer to them as Czech dogs or Czech bloodlines is retarded.
In Malinois people refer to "French", "Dutch", "German" and "Belgian" bloodlines as they were bred in those countries for traits needed in those countries.
Also to say that only Czech people like yourself understand what should be bred to what is stupid. When you and Jiri were breeding to a 100% WG male called Ilo, by that sam ereason you should not have done it as only GERMANS know how to breed these GERMAN lines.
Dont make yourself look silly saying this stuff.
by nanu on 04 February 2011 - 15:02
Clarification please, "real dogs" for those of us who have bred / worked/ embodied the Czechoslovakian pedigreed German Shepherd, it is a unique breed type that brings to mind the dog with strong sound nerve, medium at best prey, and amazing courage. As I started visiting in '98, the "sporty" influence was starting and the courage tests on the dogs started to change as sport progessed everywhere. Flashy obedience is now the norm. The dog as several other breeders/trainers and I see Czech dogs is that multipurpose true working dog. Czech / Slovakia has many working titles for these dogs beyond Schutzhund as these dogs were bred for their scent ability, soundness and high trainability. They have muzzle fighting titles, avalanche titles, herding titles, work on the rail system, not just patrol dogs - but oh what a patrol dog.
My old dog Agar who was one of the last of the Czechoslovakian Pohranicni Straze trained group before the country split, on "ball drive" ( I hate that term) would catch the tennis ball out of pure obedience then simply crush it and spit it out. My "getting older" dogs that embody these characteristics are Hill ze Slovanskeho domu, Zar Milvel and Urxi z Blatenskeho domu. Two Czech / other crosses that with the cross brought in a "little tougher to work" characteristic along with many good things is Gunner z Westwood and Otto z Westwood.
The new sport dog today is simply not the same dog that one would see work even in my WUSV visit to Slovenia in 01. . I am sorry to say this but it is.
German Police dogs have similar unique characteristics to Czech working dogs and so we sometimes take that as a cross because ANY decent breeder knows that diversifying a gene pool with similar characteristics will likely bring a stronger gene pool.
Hope this helps the conversation.
Cheers!
Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com
by Jenni78 on 04 February 2011 - 16:02
by SportySchGuy on 04 February 2011 - 17:02
by Real Deal Dogs on 05 February 2011 - 06:02
by SportySchGuy on 05 February 2011 - 12:02
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