E- Collar works miracles - Page 3

Max, I guess you didn't understand my question. Please re-read your statement ahead of mine and try to comprehend. I am fully aware the uses and benefits of the e-collar in training.

I took Tagan to the trainer today. She taught me how to correct him. I thought he did pretty well, but we definatly have work to do. The enviroment was totally different with lots of distractions that we have never had. He would listen to me with few distractions, but if there was another dog barking at us he would fixate on them and would not listen. The trainer would say a command once (leave it or heel). If he did not listen with in three seconds she would choke him with the leash.

The first few times she really had to fight him. It was sad and I really didn't like it. It sound like he was going to throw up. After a few times of that. I tried it. I didn't have to fight him like she did, but he did learn to listen within the first hour. He didn't look happy at all though. The trainer explained to me that this has to be done, because he is a powerful dominant dog who is intact.

I like the electric collar better. To me it seems like the same idea as choking the dog. If he doesnt listen to the demand I push the button and hold it down until he does listen. I actually find the e-collar to be a lot more humane and didn't see any resentment from him while using it.

Next lesson we have next Tuesday we are going to use the shock collar instead of the choking. I had a hard time with that. I do like the place where we began training. It is indoors and has lots of people and dogs all over.

Don, 
           Your question....".What does a helper putting pressure on a dog have to do with E-collars?"
 

answer is.....focus..............I do comprehend....I am old, not senile.

Most people I see use it only to punch a dog off a sleeve and to
help with a segment of their B routine. But it is the most important
tool I have found to raise and lower the aggression of the dog. And
many many other things as well. All  of which has to do with handling
pressure from the helper or decoy. In fact it is the only thing that I
have found the will bring a dog up to my standards. The pressure the
helpers put on the dog, is for the dog to bark or bite.
I don't feel I should walk people through things that need to be done on the field.
 A trainer who can show them how to properly use the e-collar....and finger kick.
Can establish more or less pressure according what the dog needs.
In my world the e-collar has quite a bit to do with the helper putting pressure on the dog.
E-collar is not just outing devise by no means.
I recommend attending a Bart Bellon clinic if you get a chance....He is a dog smith,
this is what he does. He can show you 5 small changes you can make, that will
greatly improve your dogs focus under pressure.

MAINLYMAX

the topic here is about every day life training and relationship building between the handler and the dog and not about world level competition where every dog  (read cyborg) is motivated besides natural motivation, by electric shocks and if you do not use e collar on your dog then you have no chance that your dog will win.
That is one of the reasons why I do not care for competing. The competing these days is not about the man and dog, but it is about ego of the competitor. It is a philosophical reason for me. Yes dog will respond better, faster and more accurately and learns faster  with e collar,...so would I.
So what?

Prager Hans
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeders/6442.html

Prager,

               The topic is E-Collar works miracles.......to say this is misleading I think,

I responded with a educated understanding as to what can be done with a e-collar.

It is not the devil, but it is not a toy either. I am not just competition by the way, Police

and military also. I can convert a NVBK to military,... very well and it is my preference.

You are right in a way maybe a little more than is suitable for this topic. But the thing

I focused on was the paragraph..

" I did decide to call the police and file a complaint on the heelers for sake of the neighbors children's future dog walks. At this point I don't think I need any help from the professional trainer her tips and the many you tube videos I watched on dog aggression and meeting & greeting did the job. I'm very proud and had to share Tagan and I new founded success."

I still need to look at your dogs I am very interested in the ZPS line.

Here is Grim z Pohranicni straze CS    a very good competition or any thing else. ..7 at the 1997.

It is good that there are old timers like me who remember these dogs from the 90's.

 "

 

Just to clarify. The topic  was about e collar working miracles on behavioral modification in this case  overly dog  aggressive dog.  Otherwise I agree with your conclusions. As far as visiting here  there was a seminar here which you have missed.

 Picture is that of a Grim z Pohranicni straze here is another one.

 Grim was a founder of some very important dogs.

Prager Hans

JbL82,

                  You said ...."If he doesnt listen to the demand I push the button and hold it down until he does listen. "

If the e-collar is working properly you need only remind him with very short push of the button...never push the button

and hold it there. Adjust it for a quick, short , stimulation to help the dog understand the command...don't electrocute him.

This  is why so many people are aginst there use. Use it properly.  And buy enough batteries that if they get low you can

replace them with fresh ones. IMO to keep using low batteries is a misuse and never hold the button down. That is not

what it was made for doing. The big problem I think is the manufactures give you options like delayed impulse ...which is a bad

Idea in IMO. It has applications, but more times than not, it just screws up the trainers.

Use a good E-collar always use very short impulses.. A lot trainers punch there dog off the sleeve this way. And it shows

up later in competition. Judges want see a natural release as they should.  This I think is part laziness on the trainers part and

lack of good information of to how and why the collar is to be used. Which comes back to operant conditioning. You will be

very efective without holding the button down.

Prager,

Grim received a v score at the world championships.....in 1997 .

My generation....Breeders are always looking to improve or

maintain quality in their bloodlines. When Grim came on the scene

I think it was a opportunity to do just that. I think you are a purist and

have kept your lines the way they were originally bred. I think that

was a very good choice...But if you were to ask me in 1996 before I

saw grim, I would not have understood why you did not breed out more

to the more popular dogs of that time.

The biggest reference I have, are the old DDR rottweiler lines. They

were beautiful, stronger, faster and could jump high enough to do ring sports.

These were the dogs that were bred on boarder patrol lines. I owned these

dogs and IMO they were the best rottweilers ever.

 

I bred primarily off 2 sires....Brutus vom Georgshof and   Baldur von der Karl-Adolf-Ranch Baldur von der Karl-Adolf-Ranch Baldur von der Karl-Adolf-Ranch  

Baldur von der Karl-Adolf-Ranch .

    

 

 Dingo vom Schwaiger Wappen 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My dogs look alot like Dingo, but much darker brown with black.

Very beautiful dogs. They were a little taller as well. I think that

may helped in there jumping, Although I have kelpies who

are very short that can jump as high as a malinois.

Dingo was bred on similer lines as mine. Maybe a better example

 Karl  vom Schwaiger Wappen  

 

 

 

 

I wonder what would happen if we all could just push a button until we got people to listen. Like, if you are listening at all JBL82, please listen to Max when he says, 

 

"If the e-collar is working properly you need only remind him with very short push of the button...never push the button

and hold it there. "