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by Changer on 27 May 2011 - 21:05
Good question
I've got 4 males in my house, all under 5 years, 2 intact. While I do separate at times in crates and kennels and fenced yards, they all get along and have access to each other, me and my boyfriend. ONly one of them right now (one of the 4 is a pup) is a Sch dog (Sch3 5 times) and his house living doesn't affect his phase C scores.
I use different obedience cues for house living and performance, no one ever hears Platz or fuss unless they are in play mode on a Schutzhund field. I expect my dogs to have house manners, not to jump on people, etc... When I travel to competitions, I want the dog to be used to hotels and traveling and to not bark and waste energy spinning in a circle in it's crate.
Early on in Schutzhund I kept my working dogs outside in a kennel. Now, with the dogs in the house, I might have to be more careful of their interactions with each other, but I have a much greater bond with them, which might translate to them being more resiliant to the inevitable training mistakes. Plus I like all the dog hair! Just joking...
Shade Whitesel
I've got 4 males in my house, all under 5 years, 2 intact. While I do separate at times in crates and kennels and fenced yards, they all get along and have access to each other, me and my boyfriend. ONly one of them right now (one of the 4 is a pup) is a Sch dog (Sch3 5 times) and his house living doesn't affect his phase C scores.
I use different obedience cues for house living and performance, no one ever hears Platz or fuss unless they are in play mode on a Schutzhund field. I expect my dogs to have house manners, not to jump on people, etc... When I travel to competitions, I want the dog to be used to hotels and traveling and to not bark and waste energy spinning in a circle in it's crate.
Early on in Schutzhund I kept my working dogs outside in a kennel. Now, with the dogs in the house, I might have to be more careful of their interactions with each other, but I have a much greater bond with them, which might translate to them being more resiliant to the inevitable training mistakes. Plus I like all the dog hair! Just joking...
Shade Whitesel
by poseidon on 28 May 2011 - 00:05
Thanks Shade. I really appreciate your comments especially knowing that you've competed at National level and have also made many invaluable training contributions in this forum.
Why I made this query in reference to "C" is because I do alot of socialising with my dog more so now that we no longer train for schutzhund after her BH due to lack of good clubs/ helpers (IMO).
Similarly like yourself, I use different commands; one which is a relax take-your-time and another do-it-reward forthcoming one.
I use alot of tonal cues when meeting people in my local park. She is fine with nearly everyone, typically aloof but would be entirely different when there is commotion about. With lots of socialising, I did wonder if it will affect a young dog's temperament/ behaviour toward protection work. I don't mean for my current GSD because she is now 4 years old but if, in future I do decide to take on another puppy terror (lol). In a broader sense, would nurturing alter the genetic make-up of a dog? Perhaps "alter" is not the correct phrase but I hope readers understand what I am getting at.
Why I made this query in reference to "C" is because I do alot of socialising with my dog more so now that we no longer train for schutzhund after her BH due to lack of good clubs/ helpers (IMO).
Similarly like yourself, I use different commands; one which is a relax take-your-time and another do-it-reward forthcoming one.
I use alot of tonal cues when meeting people in my local park. She is fine with nearly everyone, typically aloof but would be entirely different when there is commotion about. With lots of socialising, I did wonder if it will affect a young dog's temperament/ behaviour toward protection work. I don't mean for my current GSD because she is now 4 years old but if, in future I do decide to take on another puppy terror (lol). In a broader sense, would nurturing alter the genetic make-up of a dog? Perhaps "alter" is not the correct phrase but I hope readers understand what I am getting at.
by CMora on 06 June 2011 - 09:06
I have a question, you said that "With lots of socialising, I did wonder if it will affect a young dog's temperament/ behaviour toward protection work." I am not looking to make my pup mean as of right now she is the sweetest pup ever, never wanting to bite or anything she will kiss you to death lol but my husband is military and when he is gone I would like for her to be more protective over me and the boys. Will that naturally take place or do i need to work with her on that? She is only my second pup, the last pup I rescued and she was aggressive with everyone but my family.
by steve1 on 08 June 2011 - 08:06
I do not think it will be of any disadvantage for a dog to live in the house 24/7 in the Protection side of the sport, However it could possibly be a disadvantage in the Obedience side of the Sport because in this the dog has to react instinctively and if it is living indoors with not do this or that it may well take the edge of a Dogs focus when it is needed on the work field,
However having never had a Dog live indoors 24/7 i cannot say if it is right in what i think. I do know that the very best Sports People over here Kennel there Dogs outdoors, But again i do not know there reasons for doing so.
Steve1
However having never had a Dog live indoors 24/7 i cannot say if it is right in what i think. I do know that the very best Sports People over here Kennel there Dogs outdoors, But again i do not know there reasons for doing so.
Steve1
by poseidon on 08 June 2011 - 13:06
I agree steve1. Similarly to what Judron said in the beginning about obedience and Chaz' comments about genetics for protection work. As I don't have a schutzhund club to go to, I'll say her obedience in the park is generally fine and is barely affected by being at home and sharing my bed.
Genetically, I would say she is dominant with species of her own kind and have remain generally aloof with strangers unless I bring them into my house.
So from my understanding, as long as I have good protection training coupled with good genes, there shouldn't be any problems with "C" despite anything else.
Genetically, I would say she is dominant with species of her own kind and have remain generally aloof with strangers unless I bring them into my house.
So from my understanding, as long as I have good protection training coupled with good genes, there shouldn't be any problems with "C" despite anything else.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 09 June 2011 - 16:06
Everything you do effects something in a dog. I prefer to have pups raised in a kennel. That doesn't mean it is THE right way. I think that it makes them stronger, more independant.
I prefer to not have to tell my puppies to stop chewing on this, or that or the other. If I have them in the house, and they go all puppy nutso, I can grab them and take them outside to their kennel, no need to do, or say anything, as puppy nutso has plenty of cues that it is about to happen. It aslo makes for a dog that after a while gets that they are not going to stay with me in the house if they get all crazy, and that crazy is for outside, not the house.
I look at raising a puppy as a recipe. Most people can agree that fried chicken (or whatever) is deeeeeeelicious. However, some may like it more spicy, some like it without salt and pepper, ect ect.
For me, raising a puppy outside is better. I am too large, and have too much presence and unless they are just a really really strong dog, they just do better being able to bark and act stupid out in the kennel.
It is also a known fact that if you have something that you like, and do not want to be broken, or chewed on, that a good puppy will somehow recognize this fact, and want it for itself. LOL Everything outside is nothing that they either can chew on, or that I care if they run off with for a second or so. There are sticks out there so that I can redirect them off my shoes. : )
If you really like raising a puppy in the house, then that is the way to go for you. That is YOUR fried chicken.
I prefer to not have to tell my puppies to stop chewing on this, or that or the other. If I have them in the house, and they go all puppy nutso, I can grab them and take them outside to their kennel, no need to do, or say anything, as puppy nutso has plenty of cues that it is about to happen. It aslo makes for a dog that after a while gets that they are not going to stay with me in the house if they get all crazy, and that crazy is for outside, not the house.
I look at raising a puppy as a recipe. Most people can agree that fried chicken (or whatever) is deeeeeeelicious. However, some may like it more spicy, some like it without salt and pepper, ect ect.
For me, raising a puppy outside is better. I am too large, and have too much presence and unless they are just a really really strong dog, they just do better being able to bark and act stupid out in the kennel.
It is also a known fact that if you have something that you like, and do not want to be broken, or chewed on, that a good puppy will somehow recognize this fact, and want it for itself. LOL Everything outside is nothing that they either can chew on, or that I care if they run off with for a second or so. There are sticks out there so that I can redirect them off my shoes. : )
If you really like raising a puppy in the house, then that is the way to go for you. That is YOUR fried chicken.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 09 June 2011 - 16:06
Quote: I have a question, you said that "With lots of socialising, I did wonder if it will affect a young dog's temperament/ behaviour toward protection work." I am not looking to make my pup mean as of right now she is the sweetest pup ever, never wanting to bite or anything she will kiss you to death lol but my husband is military and when he is gone I would like for her to be more protective over me and the boys. Will that naturally take place or do i need to work with her on that? She is only my second pup, the last pup I rescued and she was aggressive with everyone but my family
I like to let puppies go in public places and get petted. But again, that is MY recipe. I like a dog that gets to see a lot of people, and can see how these normal everyday people move and interact.
That gives them something to think about if a person is not behaving in a normal way. More info in the brain pan so to speak. However, if you want to create a dog that is a bit more standoffish, then you just socialize them less. If you have a puppy that starts to get all aggro, or fearful if someone comes over, then you have to go out and balance that puppy out.
This is where the internet bogs down. I say tomatoe, and you say Tomahto. You need to read what everyone says, so you have some ideas based on what your pup is doing. Then you have to read your dog and adjust until the dog is doing what you want. Some dogs will never act exactly as you want, but part of that might be inexperience, and some part is the dog. You cannot make godzilla out of a field mouse.
I like to let puppies go in public places and get petted. But again, that is MY recipe. I like a dog that gets to see a lot of people, and can see how these normal everyday people move and interact.
That gives them something to think about if a person is not behaving in a normal way. More info in the brain pan so to speak. However, if you want to create a dog that is a bit more standoffish, then you just socialize them less. If you have a puppy that starts to get all aggro, or fearful if someone comes over, then you have to go out and balance that puppy out.
This is where the internet bogs down. I say tomatoe, and you say Tomahto. You need to read what everyone says, so you have some ideas based on what your pup is doing. Then you have to read your dog and adjust until the dog is doing what you want. Some dogs will never act exactly as you want, but part of that might be inexperience, and some part is the dog. You cannot make godzilla out of a field mouse.
by Ace952 on 09 June 2011 - 18:06
I like your POV Jeff. My dogs live inside 24/7 but I certainly see your point.
by alkster2002 on 10 June 2011 - 19:06
I think I can say that I have been successful ....... my take on this is that it is not what is in the house or not BUT what is genetically entact in the dog .............. with his work ethic ..... this is where it MUST be ..................................
by Sandra Weiland on 12 June 2011 - 05:06
My dogs live with me in my house, all three of them. Sch2, Sch1, Sch1.
I like to have them with me in the house because I spend more time with them that way, and I think it creates a bond, that you can't get with a kenneled dog.
If the dog is genetically predisposed to excell in the Protection phase of the sport, I don't think that living in the house interferes with it. If it were to be proven to me, that I might get a couple more points in protection, by kenneling my dogs, who are part of our family, my response would be, that they will have a longer and happier life, by living with me, being touched and handled all day, than a kenneled dog.
Many of the people who kennel their dogs, tell me that they "Just don't behave in the house". That's probably because it is too much trouble to teach them house manners. And yes, there is extra cleaning involved. Oh well. I would rather have a few dusty hairy fluff balls around than give up the companionship of my dogs, which is why I wanted to have them in the first place. They are FIRST, my best friends, second my Schutzhund dogs.
We hear all the time of dogs that have died in their kennels of an attack of bloat, or had other ailments, that were not noticed as quickly because they do not spend as much time with their owners. For example, two cracked canine teeth, that can develop into being abcessed, and needing removal (real story of a kenneled dog); I am sure that if that dog were house raised and part of the family, the two cracked canines would have been noticed more quickly, before the situation required removal of both canines.
Dogs that are kennelled cannot possibly get the same attention and care that can be given by being seen all day, and having a problem noticed early.
My dogs are first and foremost my best friends, and I don't put my best friends in a kennel.
I like to have them with me in the house because I spend more time with them that way, and I think it creates a bond, that you can't get with a kenneled dog.
If the dog is genetically predisposed to excell in the Protection phase of the sport, I don't think that living in the house interferes with it. If it were to be proven to me, that I might get a couple more points in protection, by kenneling my dogs, who are part of our family, my response would be, that they will have a longer and happier life, by living with me, being touched and handled all day, than a kenneled dog.
Many of the people who kennel their dogs, tell me that they "Just don't behave in the house". That's probably because it is too much trouble to teach them house manners. And yes, there is extra cleaning involved. Oh well. I would rather have a few dusty hairy fluff balls around than give up the companionship of my dogs, which is why I wanted to have them in the first place. They are FIRST, my best friends, second my Schutzhund dogs.
We hear all the time of dogs that have died in their kennels of an attack of bloat, or had other ailments, that were not noticed as quickly because they do not spend as much time with their owners. For example, two cracked canine teeth, that can develop into being abcessed, and needing removal (real story of a kenneled dog); I am sure that if that dog were house raised and part of the family, the two cracked canines would have been noticed more quickly, before the situation required removal of both canines.
Dogs that are kennelled cannot possibly get the same attention and care that can be given by being seen all day, and having a problem noticed early.
My dogs are first and foremost my best friends, and I don't put my best friends in a kennel.
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