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by laura271 on 15 June 2011 - 12:06
Thank-you to everyone for their suggestions.
@Alphapup - That's how I train ...sit (or whatever command) means sit until the release word (OK) is given. In hindsight, I should have chosen a different release word since I apparently, unconsciously say the word OK all the time so I had to train myself out of that. Oy.
@vom Eichental- I agree- it's really important not to fall into a routine. I'm new so I made that mistake with the down/sit hand signals (down signal always followed up with a sit signal).
Changer asked if Senta would sit on command when my back was turned- the answer was no (!) for the first few times. This really surprised me- the sit command is such an integral part of her life. So, for the past week we've been practicing that until she can now do it reliably on command. I started turning into her on Monday and that's been successful. We'll be continuing to work on that this week.
@Alphapup - That's how I train ...sit (or whatever command) means sit until the release word (OK) is given. In hindsight, I should have chosen a different release word since I apparently, unconsciously say the word OK all the time so I had to train myself out of that. Oy.
@vom Eichental- I agree- it's really important not to fall into a routine. I'm new so I made that mistake with the down/sit hand signals (down signal always followed up with a sit signal).
Changer asked if Senta would sit on command when my back was turned- the answer was no (!) for the first few times. This really surprised me- the sit command is such an integral part of her life. So, for the past week we've been practicing that until she can now do it reliably on command. I started turning into her on Monday and that's been successful. We'll be continuing to work on that this week.
by steve1 on 15 June 2011 - 17:06
Good job it is helping' lets us know how you go on
Steve1
Steve1
by ALPHAPUP on 15 June 2011 - 19:06
another comment.. qualified [ i do not know anyones /readers dog BUT] RE:" smacking your dog on the head in the down in motion : WHY ?? ...---- why not .. just simply tug down and back on a leash ?? WHY hit the dog ?? and smack it at that ?? - i will give one reason NOT TO : a hint..as previously written : what you teach permeates to other behaviors !! the picture to the dog is : a hand coming to my head -yikes , avoid it beacuse that means a smack [ouch]' !! i have seen this for example translate to stick work in protection work .. doesn't matter about the stick ... it can and most often is the same picture to the dog except now there is something in hand .. same picture - a hand to the head !! same reaction !! enough smacks ... what then will be the cue that a pat [ for good job to the head ] will not be / result in a smack to the head ?? or how will the dog interpret a child's hand to the head ? Just a thought ./. decide for yourself ..
another thought .. ok .. some people train 'come' to their pups bythe method of- turning and walking away ... that is how they entice the dog to come !! so now .. you try to teach the 'sit in motion ' you walk away , saying "sit" .... and gee .. the dog follows you ... ? wonder why ? what has the dog learned conceptually ? it has learned in the recall as a pup , when mom turns i follow and come/get to her !! with purpose of redundancy .. what you teach earlier has affects ... and again [ not saying this is so for the poster] but again look at it this way too : you think you say sit [ meanaing until released ] but is one has taught the puppy recall as described , then to the dog , even without saying anything , you have released the dog from sitting , unknowingly ! you told the dog non-verbally via your body language to follow .. that was what at times is taught' dog when you see my back gpoing away,'come'. just for the record .. my posts are aimed at the 1000 others reading .. i force no opinions on anyone or pass any judgements .. do what works for you !!
another thought .. ok .. some people train 'come' to their pups bythe method of- turning and walking away ... that is how they entice the dog to come !! so now .. you try to teach the 'sit in motion ' you walk away , saying "sit" .... and gee .. the dog follows you ... ? wonder why ? what has the dog learned conceptually ? it has learned in the recall as a pup , when mom turns i follow and come/get to her !! with purpose of redundancy .. what you teach earlier has affects ... and again [ not saying this is so for the poster] but again look at it this way too : you think you say sit [ meanaing until released ] but is one has taught the puppy recall as described , then to the dog , even without saying anything , you have released the dog from sitting , unknowingly ! you told the dog non-verbally via your body language to follow .. that was what at times is taught' dog when you see my back gpoing away,'come'. just for the record .. my posts are aimed at the 1000 others reading .. i force no opinions on anyone or pass any judgements .. do what works for you !!
by steve1 on 16 June 2011 - 05:06
Remember one thing and i hope you have done it
When you walk the dog at heel and you tell it to SIT you then turn into and face the Dog, you are then blocking the dog he has no where to go and it should sit sharply and that is what you are aiming to do, However this bit is important, You then step back to your dogs side, at this point you still have hold of the leash,
Turn round with the Dog and go back to the spot, Do the same again, When the dog gets used to sitting this way you can then walk on a few paces and turn to face your dog, wait a few seconds then return to your dogs side and pick up the leash,
As time goes on you can go a few paces more but always return to your dog,
And we always start every training SIT by turning into the dog before we walk on.
But of course every training session starts with playing with the Dog with the ball that a few times then ready for work we always finish work with a playing of the Ball, and of course we play with the Ball in between exercises overall a lot of Ball play, Meaning Work BALL, work BALL. not throwing it just dropping it we use a Ball Dropper mostly
and another thing we do also when the Dog sits in front is to drop a piece of sweet from the your mouth for the dog to catch, However if the dog misses it, do not let him pick it up from the ground When the dog gets used to catching the treat from your mouth he is focusing on your face what you do then to distract your Dog and you can do this by moving your arms backwards and forwards in a light swinging movement as if you are walking with your dog, in time your dog will not even glance at your moving arms but keep looking at your eyes waiting for the treat to come
When you get to heeling proper your dog will take no notice of your arms he will be focusing on your face looking up, this is one way of doing it
Steve1
When you walk the dog at heel and you tell it to SIT you then turn into and face the Dog, you are then blocking the dog he has no where to go and it should sit sharply and that is what you are aiming to do, However this bit is important, You then step back to your dogs side, at this point you still have hold of the leash,
Turn round with the Dog and go back to the spot, Do the same again, When the dog gets used to sitting this way you can then walk on a few paces and turn to face your dog, wait a few seconds then return to your dogs side and pick up the leash,
As time goes on you can go a few paces more but always return to your dog,
And we always start every training SIT by turning into the dog before we walk on.
But of course every training session starts with playing with the Dog with the ball that a few times then ready for work we always finish work with a playing of the Ball, and of course we play with the Ball in between exercises overall a lot of Ball play, Meaning Work BALL, work BALL. not throwing it just dropping it we use a Ball Dropper mostly
and another thing we do also when the Dog sits in front is to drop a piece of sweet from the your mouth for the dog to catch, However if the dog misses it, do not let him pick it up from the ground When the dog gets used to catching the treat from your mouth he is focusing on your face what you do then to distract your Dog and you can do this by moving your arms backwards and forwards in a light swinging movement as if you are walking with your dog, in time your dog will not even glance at your moving arms but keep looking at your eyes waiting for the treat to come
When you get to heeling proper your dog will take no notice of your arms he will be focusing on your face looking up, this is one way of doing it
Steve1
by ALPHAPUP on 16 June 2011 - 13:06
steve1 gave a veryvery nice synopsis in the last post .. but i would add - and for you to decide .. the sit out of motion as he describes -yes -but personally .. i do not do that in a 'training session' .. what i mean to say .. it can be done while i watch TV , or cook , ,before i take a dog for a ride , before i feed it .. done over and over- one perfect execution is better than 5 sloppy ones. just a thought -- i always teaxch my dog in my life THEN i do a session .. once the dog has learned perfectly communicatged , then i go everywhere , anytime etc.. but you would be surprised how much of Sch/ Ring you can perfect right in your home !! the fundamental - dogs learn by repitition and constant conditioning - and tha to me does nopt mean 8:00 AM or 1:00 pm .. it means ALAWAYS my dogs are expected to perform .. . IMO training is merely teaching and a way of life ... any sport IMO is a way of life ... and to re-emphasize -- always always always [ at the onset of teaching] go back to your dog . do not release right away .. this is very very important. dogs are constantly trying to out think us in a manner of speaking.. the dog always has a reason to move or anticipate to move.. even the mere thought or desire to be with you is very potent. [ this is why i suggest if you click and treat - to click after you have gone back to your dog and waited ] that is what is BEST to mark .. [ you are teaching hold your postion if i am away or if i am near].after you may sit/stay go back .. leave go back - click treat. as another way to teach your dog .. a sit is a sit no matter if i am static or in motion .. AND until I state otherwise.. again it creates the outlook to the dog that the aty the onset and during the 'sit in motion' it need not move .. you come and go as you will no matter BUT dog you remain.
by steve1 on 16 June 2011 - 15:06
ALFAPUP
As you know my dogs live outdoors so therefore no training would be done in the house, However the garden is different, But then when i had my Female i trained everyday so by taking her for a walk we break off to do a little Obedience sometimes the Sit and Down was done during the walk and by taking the dog completely by suprise meaning she was walking along relaxed then told to down or sit and when i tell a dog to do that it means sharply as in a sports postilion on the field and she was spot on all the time,
Why because she was trained the way i said in my posts always sitting or downing in a straight line, So it has worked for me and countless other top Sports Guys over here,
Not developed by me but by people recognized the world over for there talent in handling dogs at the very top of the Dog Sport, and it was those who taught me the way to do it, i pass on here what has worked for them and me good solid advice.
However it is up to anyone reading if they care to follow any of it , Just the same for you some may follow what you say if only one person does follow then writing it has been worth while doing it would you not think so.
Regards Clicker training i have never used a Clicker i use my voice the Ball and treats to get the results from the dog if it does well reward and reward every time it does something good Consistency on the part of the Handler is the key to good dog training.
However when my Puppy comes this next month i was thinking of doing a bit of Clicker Training with it but to get the Pup first, at the moment i am helping my brother train Gina who is 15 months old today and a very bright prospect in the ScH Sport
Steve1
As you know my dogs live outdoors so therefore no training would be done in the house, However the garden is different, But then when i had my Female i trained everyday so by taking her for a walk we break off to do a little Obedience sometimes the Sit and Down was done during the walk and by taking the dog completely by suprise meaning she was walking along relaxed then told to down or sit and when i tell a dog to do that it means sharply as in a sports postilion on the field and she was spot on all the time,
Why because she was trained the way i said in my posts always sitting or downing in a straight line, So it has worked for me and countless other top Sports Guys over here,
Not developed by me but by people recognized the world over for there talent in handling dogs at the very top of the Dog Sport, and it was those who taught me the way to do it, i pass on here what has worked for them and me good solid advice.
However it is up to anyone reading if they care to follow any of it , Just the same for you some may follow what you say if only one person does follow then writing it has been worth while doing it would you not think so.
Regards Clicker training i have never used a Clicker i use my voice the Ball and treats to get the results from the dog if it does well reward and reward every time it does something good Consistency on the part of the Handler is the key to good dog training.
However when my Puppy comes this next month i was thinking of doing a bit of Clicker Training with it but to get the Pup first, at the moment i am helping my brother train Gina who is 15 months old today and a very bright prospect in the ScH Sport
Steve1
by ALPHAPUP on 16 June 2011 - 17:06
steve1 .. yes the outdoors is great .. ok one's back yard .. or a walk .. good idea.. because ... i too will use the environment to aid in makikng the dog correct and the dog learns in the context of distractions .. distractions aren't generally issues later. most often .. people make the issues -that's another topic.. for example the down in motion ... ok .. walk by a chain link fence - "paltz" .... you can control if the dog lags or forges but the fence prohibits the dog from not being straight! ! you can use a tree , a park bench , side of a building etc .. good suggetion , steve.
i went to Germany to have my GSD for 'a' stamped /x-rayed... ther vet there even used a clicker... the clicker in essence is an extention of oneself - just as a leash is no different than an extension of your arm !!. it is a non-emotional way to in a microsecond to say " yes , correct choice of behavior: ! So 1. i train the behavior either in steps/increments or at times the whole behavior first THEN i asociate the word AND I ALWAYS ALWAYS pair myself verbally & non-verbally with the point of success and the goal the dog worked for /wanted to achieve. .. this way the dog learns to respond to me !! the power is undescribable .. my pup now 12 weeks can and will do a sit on the living room floor with me walking away 10 feet , any direction , doing any body movement .. also a down and a stand. she has already learned the 'hier' position [ right in front , straight toe to toe ] and similarily the heel position [left side toe to toe]. and she will from 15 feet away from any angle/direction go into position hier or heel position . soon i star heel in motion .. So for readers .. the communication with clicker is extraordinarily exact .. and ANYONE can do what i described .. i will not say i am a great trainer .. just the clicked allows great communication . remember a nother fundamental ..
dogs do things with purposeness ,, they need a reason valued to themselves " to do" .. so give them a reason to sit , to sit in motion and TEACH CORRECTLY the FIRST TIME !! and then .. DO NOT DO TO MUCH TO FAST ,.. make sure the dog has learned as steve wrote turning into the dog before you go 1 or even 2 steps away ... do 1000 x 1000 times before you go away from your dog2, or 3,4 or ,5 steps .. if you do not have 1 step away from your dog down pat 100% then no reason to go away any further and have the dog error !!
i went to Germany to have my GSD for 'a' stamped /x-rayed... ther vet there even used a clicker... the clicker in essence is an extention of oneself - just as a leash is no different than an extension of your arm !!. it is a non-emotional way to in a microsecond to say " yes , correct choice of behavior: ! So 1. i train the behavior either in steps/increments or at times the whole behavior first THEN i asociate the word AND I ALWAYS ALWAYS pair myself verbally & non-verbally with the point of success and the goal the dog worked for /wanted to achieve. .. this way the dog learns to respond to me !! the power is undescribable .. my pup now 12 weeks can and will do a sit on the living room floor with me walking away 10 feet , any direction , doing any body movement .. also a down and a stand. she has already learned the 'hier' position [ right in front , straight toe to toe ] and similarily the heel position [left side toe to toe]. and she will from 15 feet away from any angle/direction go into position hier or heel position . soon i star heel in motion .. So for readers .. the communication with clicker is extraordinarily exact .. and ANYONE can do what i described .. i will not say i am a great trainer .. just the clicked allows great communication . remember a nother fundamental ..
dogs do things with purposeness ,, they need a reason valued to themselves " to do" .. so give them a reason to sit , to sit in motion and TEACH CORRECTLY the FIRST TIME !! and then .. DO NOT DO TO MUCH TO FAST ,.. make sure the dog has learned as steve wrote turning into the dog before you go 1 or even 2 steps away ... do 1000 x 1000 times before you go away from your dog2, or 3,4 or ,5 steps .. if you do not have 1 step away from your dog down pat 100% then no reason to go away any further and have the dog error !!
by ALPHAPUP on 16 June 2011 - 17:06
BTW .. if Skinner around the year 1950 can teach pigeons to play ping pong .. i think the average person can teach a dog top sit in motion !!
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