Need training help/recommendatons for Dutch shepherd - Page 1

Hi everyone....

I am new to pedigree database.  I have seen some great information so I am turning to you for some help. 

My family had a dog that was a pit/mastiff mix.  He was a great dog and we loved him dearly, but he passed away in January.  Because he was a stray before we adopted him, we can only estimate his age to be anywhere from 12-15 years old when he passed away.  He was 75 lbs of pure muscle, but sweet as can be.

In time, we realized we missed having a dog around and decided to adopt a dog.  We found Jessie.  She has some great traits, but she is also a bit of a challenge.  Jessie is a Dutch shepherd mix.  The only background information we have on her is that she was rescued from a high kill shelter, but the rescue then had her for over a year where she was only in a kennel.  She is about 2-3 years old.

Jessie is very quiet.  She hardly barks.  My issue is that we are at odds about dominance.  She is fine with my kids (two girls, ages 4 and 6).  She shows slight dominance aggression with my husband.  She has the biggest problem with me.  I know that she realizes I am the alpha female, but she is trying her darndest to knock me off that spot. 

She does NOT growl about food.  Mostly she tries to nip at my hand and she will bare her teeth a bit.  She also tries to force herself on my lap when I am sitting.  She also pushes herself past me on stairs or doorways.  She will also follow me around all the time.  She is doing fairly well with knowing what toys are hers and what toys are not hers.

When we got Harley 11 years ago, I went to basic obedience training with him (leather leash/choke chain, etc).  We learned heel, sit, stay, deaing with jumping, etc.  Harley mastered some things better than others.  Overall, he was a great dog that many dog haters even loved him.

I would like to take Jessie to obedience training, but I am not sure what type of training would be best for her.  I see all types of training for ecollar, clicker, choke chain, etc.  There is so much out there that my head is spinning.  I am not opposed to buying books/videos or going to classes at a local pet training place.  I just want something that works and isn't a waste of money or time. 

We have only had Jessie for a week and a half.  I am trying my best to use some of the methods I was able to use with Harley, but Jessie is a very different dog.  I don't know if it is a breed difference or if it is because she is a female. 

I love Jessie and she is very affectionate and loving at times, but I want to take care of this before it's too late.

Susan
Clark, NJ

Beth Bradely may be near you; try giving her a call.  She is a top trainer / handler.

Here is her website Click me

Good Luck

SueRue119,

Congratulations on your rescue!  I am also new to this site and in no way an expert.  I also had mixed breeds before getting a shepherd and had no idea how important it was to be a pack leader for the dog or how to be one.  Shepherds seem to be more sensitive to pack order and rank than non-herding breeds which probably made them better able to work for their owners.  They still need to work even when living in a home and they need to know what you want them to do or they will get into trouble.  I was referred to Leerburg.com for training videos and articles, and, although no trainer seems to be universally appreciated, this site may give you some ideas you can incorporate in your own situation.  I have found it more helpful than the trainers I have contacted simply because my local resources don't have breed specific experience and a few hours of training a week with other dogs is not enough.  And it is free, until you decide what other direction you want to go.  Hope this helps.

http://leerburg.com/philosophy.htm

http://leerburg.com/groundwork.htm

 

Do not take advice from Ed Frawley about anything dog related.  Ed has been kicked out of probably every event he has ever attended.  Stealing people's training ideas, good or bad, without their permission and selling them on your videos is theft and that's the only thing Ed is a master of.  Not only has he not done anything in the German Shepherd world (other than produce dogs with terrible hips and bad temperaments) but for years he even misspelled the word Malinois on his website.  He certainly knows nothing about the Dutch Shepherd.  My suggestion is to contact Dianne SanLorenzo of von Christel Dutch Shepherds in Jacksonville (I think), she is out of breeding now but still trains and has been into Dutch Shepherds for years.  Other than Rik, she probably knows more about the breed than anyone else here in the states.

Holy shit. Are you guys not reading this?

The dog follows her around all the time? It tries to force itself in to her lap? It sounds like the dog likes you.

Nipping at your hand when taking food and pushing by you isn't dominance, it's poor manners. That's all.

Give me a call if you'd like. I run a dog training group on Staten Island, about 30 minutes from you.

Ben
804.244.9810

Sorry, rvadog, I did read the post:  "Shows slight aggressive dominance toward husband," "bares teeth," "forces," "pushes" are not awkward puppy "bad manners" in a 2-3 year old dog.  And there are 4 and 6 year old girls here.  Many rescues don't place dogs, especially large breeds, with families having children under 9 years of age for a reason.  If the owner is uncomfortable about her dog's behavior then it has to be addressed.  I don't know if Jessie has dominance issues or is just trying to find her place in her new pack.   But the sooner she learns some good behaviors the fewer bad behaviors she will have to unlearn.
 
And Duderino, I appreciate your warning about Ed Frawley personally and professionally, but until Susan and Jessie find the right trainer, some of the information Frawley provides free on line about clicker/marker training, collars, etc. is just what Susan was asking about.  No one has to take his advice, or mine either!

Minimally, Susan should read hunger4justice's recent description of pack leader behavior under the topic of Aggression(http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=506224).  Search out some of the posts here that seem relevant.  I just like to see rescues succeed.

  

I wonder how much pet dog training experience you have Micaho. I ask because you have to take what a pet owner says for what it's worth.  The only thing slightly troubling about what she said "bares teeth". I'd like to see what context she bares her teeth. I've trained dogs that the onwer worried was "aggressive" because it growled while playing tug.

Pet people are terrible at reading dogs. A dog that forces and pushes has bad manners. What the hell is "slight domiance aggression"? Is the dog dominant aggressive or not? In what context? Over what resources? Does she bite?

The OP needs to go to a dog trainer which is why I offered my club as a way to talk to some dog trainers and have experienced handlers assess her dog.

I shy away from domiance because I have seen owners who alpha rolled their dog for jumping on them when they get home from work (not dominace but excitement) or becaus ethe dog licked them in the face (not dominace but affection or even submission) and then you have a dog that pisses itself when the owner walks in house or worse bites them in the face.

Ok, rvadog. I see your point. I am not a dog trainer, I am just a long time dog owner, as is the OP, and as such I am responding from a different perspective. I certainly hope that Susan and her family will benefit from working with a trainer and having their issues professionally assessed. That has never been my experience for various reasons, but that doesn't mean I'm against it for others in any respect. For me, when I hope that someone else will be able to "fix" my problem, I am always disappointed. On the other hand, the more effort I put into something myself, the better the outcome, usually. But the reason I am suggesting some online resources is that they are free, immediate, informative in the sense that Susan will have a better idea of what she likes or doesn't like, and because such research worked well for me. I also think you will agree that a dog who has good manners at home will work much better for a trainer as well. I'm not talking about alpha rolls or any other corrections initially. Just teaching the dog what behavior is allowed in the home and what isn't using treats and crates as needed. I hope that Susan will let us know how she's doing.

Please for the sake of all dogs everywhere, NEVER, EVER, EVER give out information about Ed Frawley or his advice on dog training.  He is a leach, a lamprey eel, a tick on the backside of the dog world, sucking on the knowledge of others and making money off of their efforts.