Aggression - Page 1

My male stud is obedient and is with me constantland pretty mellow unless a female comes to visit, even ones he knows. He approaches them and gives them a low growl. sometimes his hair is up a little. I say NO and have him sit and tell him Friend, it is ok and say their name. If he growls again I kennel him. If my friend and I walk and take the dog, he is fine. I figure I am his alpha female andhe is protecting me but it is not acceptable and I want him to qualify as a therapy dog. He is 2yrs. My female is 18 months and she is very protective, not to pople but to thier dogs. If a visitor has a dog I try to keep both of my dogs from greeting them at once, but the female will fight and bite if the other dog shows aggression. Suggestions greatly appreciated.

Let me preface that everything I say is in an attempt to help you solve this. 

From what you write, I don't think he thinks you are his alpha female, he thinks you are HIS, period.  If you were alpha to either, then after they know you do not allow aggression they would not continue to do this after being corrected.  I think he thinks maybe you are his equal, but that is not enough to stop a bite or him aggressing when he thinks fit (versus when you think it is ok).  There are two problems with kenneling him when he continues to aggress, though I understand why you do.  One is that he will see being placed in the kennel as a punishment, and you don't want that for obvious reasons.  Two is that is does not solve the problem that both dogs think it is up to them to elect when they should aggress.

Personally, I think you need to look at everything in your home and how you interact with him and see how you might be giving him the message that he can elect when and to whom he can aggress and that you are his equal (everyone else being below that).  The smallest things, like making absolutely sure that when you open the door, he waits until you give permission to go through.  Every time, not just 80% of the time.  Making sure that he does not pull the leash, even when you first go out on walks.  All the time, not just on the second half of the walk. Making sure he is invited, if at all, on furniture, bed, etc. and that he gets off when told.  Don't let him lean on you, sit on you or demand attention.   Never pat him to reassure him someone is ok when he aggresses.  Don't just tell him no and not just to sit, but to PLATZ...lie down is more submissive than sitting.  When someone comes in, make him lie down the entire time they are there (that might mean using a long lead) and correct him if he gets up or even gives the evil eye. 

With your female, make sure you don't avoid walking past dogs in fences that trigger her.  Avoiding is not teaching.  You need to put her in the situation, safely (NO DOG PARKS) and correct when she focuses on the other dog.  Every time.  Don't just wait until she barks.

When they do listen (if you say, leave it or lass es) make sure to say good dog and reward.  Make sure to reward when they are calm (as opposed to intently, quietly focusing on the kill).  

All that being said, they are German Shepherds and I am not sure you ought to be bringing strange friends' dogs to your/their territory.  Although you can train around those dogs when both are on leashes away from your house and correct her if she focuses on the other dog and not you...again...EVERY TIME.

Maybe you should think about training them in Shcutzhund instead, unless you want them to be your therapy dog(s). 

By the way, telling him friend and kenneling him after he growls is not teaching him what friend means or what you WANT him to do.

hunger4justice,

Sounds like you've been watching me interact with my dog!  Guess I better change my ways!! 

Ed Frawley from Leerburg agreed with you when he wrote:  "Once you have set your leadership position a strong dog will defer to your rank and allow you to deal with an intruder as a matter of respect.  When people have dogs that go crazy at the sight of another dog, that owner's rank has not been properly established with their dog."

I found your reply really helpful because it provided a lot of specific behaviors to be aware of. 

Thanks!

I think there are much better people to get advise on aggressive dogs than Ed Frawley. 

Slamdunc,

I mentioned Ed because he agreed with what hunger4justice wrote and because I was referred to the Leerburg website by people on this forum.  If there are better resources, I'd like to check them out as well.  Thanks.

There are a lot of things I disagree with Frawley about, though he has finally come around about positive Ellis, Balabanov type training.  (We won't talk about breeding or HOT dogs that he titled..ahem)  Sometimes even those we disagree with have valuable things to say.  I try to see what makes sense/works for me and my particular dogs.  Though none of my advice came from Frawley.  If he agrees, he must be a genius..lol (that was a JOKE).

However, even though I am new to Schutzhund I have spent a couple decades rescuing and retraining (and often keeping) what some people thought were over the top, red zone, aggressive dogs and my thoughts come from dealing with very dominant and civil dogs that prior owners could not handle.  Very important as, I think ALPHAPUP also has said that the dog defers his judgement for yours and looks to you for guidance or permission to act and does not second guess the out.   

Slamdunc is very knowledgeable and has been helpful to me when I sought advice, so if you ask something specific he might help.  He doesn't raise therapy dogs though...lol..though if he wanted to, I am sure he could.

Oh, and I know many will disagree with me, but I only use the level of correction that works and no more.  The more they see you as a consistent leader, the less correction actually that you need.   Being assertive and consistent is not the same as being aggressive. 

Well, the Leerburg forum may offer better training advice than this site I'll give you that.  There are several forums that I would consider better sites for training advice than the PDB or leerburg.  This forum has lost many of the good posters who offered sound training advice.  There are still a few here, but a very small percentage.  I do not go on the Leerburg site.  I also do not consider Ed Frawley an expert on aggressive dogs and I would be very careful utilizing any of the training advice that he gives.  I do like some of the products that he sells. 

I think the OP needs to find a talented dog trainer that understands aggressive dogs and seek help in person.  When it comes to training dogs a hands on approach often works best, IMO.

Jim

Hunger4justice,
I was not directing my comment at you.  I'm sure your post will be helpful to the OP, it made perfect sense to me.  My point was that people need to be careful when taking advice from Ed Frawley, especially when it comes to aggressive dogs. 

Regarding Frawley and Ellis it is marketing and selling videos.  No doubt Michael Ellis and Ivan are great trainers.  Ed is promoting them to sell videos, it is purely marketing for Ed.  Like I said, he does sell some good products.  As long as he doesn't narrate the videos or talk over the trainer in the video they can be really good.