Strengthen Showline Genetics with Working Lines? - Page 2

No way everyone will ever agree on this. I don't think the GSd started out as the best of both worlds. It was started out as a working dog and over time separated into having a show line and working line. Many more people are interested in the show lines as a "pretty to the eye" dog is in demand worldwide. Over time the desire to WIN in the show ring has influenced the breedings to what we have today.

D.R. hmmm ,e mail me ,I would like to know more esp. since we generally agree

One thing to remember is that we all have different ideals on what is best for the GSD breed. Regardless if everyone would be more careful and thoughtful before breeding the breed would be much improved. Here are a few differences that make me prefer the working lines. Realize that I have been more exposed to Police K-9 lines than other GSD's. While training in SAR we went to a new location that was full of "grassburrs and thorns. Both of my dogs ignored the grassburrs and worked eagerly. The other dogs shut down and had to be carried out. I like the mental toughness in my dogs.

Yeah - that's sad to have to carry your dog in a situation like that (embarrassing, too). You hear of stories of WWII with GSDs that got medals of honor for carrying their owners out! Those dogs would roll over in their graves if they heard of such a thing! I have to agree I want a courageous loving whole GSD that won't back down when the heat is on and he's the only one you can put your hope in...if grassburrs and thorns can stop him, certainly a thief wouldn't have much of a problem. Well, thanks for the IMOs...I still have yet to see one of these "shorking" lines...LOL...heard about them being bred out there...somewhere...never seen a pic of one in the pedigree database or on any breeder websites.

Many do not like to see working and show lines mixed. I can see the reasoning for it and can see why some would not want to do this. However, I have seen sucess and good results when done right. My foundation bitch Libby is 1/2 older West German show lines and 1/2 West German working lines. She is SchH3 IPO3 SG rated Kkl2 OFA good H&E 'a' normal ZW79, nice all around bitch. I bred her to a working line male and have a bitch from that breeding that just got her SchH1 with 94, 80, 97 high SchH1, high protection and High in trial. These dogs have drive, temperament, nerves, hunt drive you wouldnt believe, they are biddable, very eager to work, good H&E with low ZW#s, etc.. My Libby had two brothers that worked as police dogs. Libby also produced two working police dogs, two service dogs, as well as several who have worked in SchH, herding, AKC obedience, etc... all in just two litters. But for people wanting to improve the working ability in the show lines, I think they could probably do it by breeding to certain show line males... but it seems that they do not want to look at the SG or low V rated show line males that work well! We have a show line male in our area that works VERY nicely. Several in my club did not realize he was a show line male when he visited. He is Kkl1 and SG I think, but several times SchH3, competed at the regionals and having seen this dog he is nice in the work. I have to wonder why show line breeders do not use a dog like this rather then the current VA or top V dogs that may not work near as nicely. JMO of course

It goes back to my earlier remark that in the show world winning is everything and that dictates the breeding. I am not saying this to insult anyone but you have a conflict when you can breed to show male that has good working ability but not the looks/movement and conformation to be VA rated. Where do you draw the line?

Someone almost "hit the nail on the head". The breed started as a working breed and somewhere along the line some, as also mentioned, decided they knew more and had a better idea----- TWO (2) breeds from one! Now some of those actually believe there are 2 breeds! Excuse me, LINES! The gene pool is not changed since the breed was founded--- only rearranged, so to speak. If you have an ugly dog-- by all means breed it to another ugly dog so as to not confuse the issue while continuing to shout down anyone that thinks the German Shepherd Dog is TRULY the noblest of "God's Special Creatures. Gosh--- never gave it a thought! You don't suppose beauty had anything to do with the German Shepherd Dog being the most recognized breed world wide. No, it could NOT possibly had anything to do with the versatility of the breed, the intelligence of the breed, NOOOO WAAAY! Had to be the 6 week old puppies that growl, bite, and attack the "baby bag". RIGHT ON!!!! Do some ever actually give a thought to what they say?-- what they hear?-- If you really have the slightest clue as to what the true temperament of a well bred German Shepherd Dog should be---- WITHOUT ALL OF THE EXCUSES---- Raise Your Hand and be PROUD--- The rest of you should shut up, look and listen, Chance you might learn something. YEH---- you can dismiss me---- getting senile these 55 years since I bred my first litter. Best wishes, No ill will meant, PJDogs / Morgan

Perhaps some of those on this site will explain in layman language the expected result when you divide the gene pool and make a calculated effort to "breed out" 20% or 25%. PJDogs / Morgan

I had been thinking about that too! I didnt try until now only because there is no working line dog avalable in the state I live, yes they didnt get here yet! Even in the other states near my there isnt even one. I had been thinking that genetic diversity is healthfull to all especimes, why not German Shepherds ,that had been inbreeding for so many generations, couldnt get some benefit from the adition of an distant blood, but in the same breed with the same origin, it would bring more benefits than we think, it could bring back health and vivacity to the showline who had been involved in so many inbreeding programs, with so many time uses of URAN, QUANTO, QUINA, PALME, JECK and all those wonderfull dogs, but over used trying to get a "correct" conformation, while temperament and hip displasia was just left to a second plan, even if we dont admit that! Yes, I would do (use the working line), no matter so many people would say I was going in a diferent direction of what I had been doing and defending for so many years, I WOULD TRY! EVEN IF IT COSTS SOME STEPS BACK IN TERMS OF BEAUTY! THE WORK ABILITY IS THE REAL BEAUTY IN THIS BREED! I ALSO AGREE THAT IN SOME CASES REGULAR PEOPLE WONT NEED AND JUST CANT HANDLE A REAL WORKING DOG WITH ALL THAT DOMINANCE, BUT IT WOULD BE JUST A LITLLE ADITION OF BLOOD AND WOULD PUT JUST ENOGHT TEMPERAMENT TO MAKE OUR SHOW DOGS MORE RUSTIC AND USEFULL!

When you have a weak arguement people always resort to insulting..no matter their age. Let's see.. Let's look at the Czech dogs, DDR dogs, West German Show Lines and now American lines. You can write a book on the differences between these dogs. After many years(sure some of you know how many) you can actually change the genetics quite drastically with selective breedings. My only reference to the dog's beauty is that is what the market wants and many breeders fill the need; forgetting about the working ability. Lastly, who has the right to say what the true temperment of the GSD is? Just because you have done something a long time does not make you king of the breed. I may like a certain temperment but someone wants one more aggressive or more low key. Who are you to determine what's right for everyone? Myself I like higher drive dogs while my wife prefers showlines. :)