Who is responsible? - Page 2

very well put steven, sums it up.

So, do you think it would be a better plan to just buy a brood bitch, then buy frozen seman after she's home? I really don't want to have to buy a male and a female.

BabyEagle4U- Why not find a suitable stud in your area? I personally wouldn't buy a pregnant bitch. I'd find a Stud in the US or buy frozen semen if you have your eye on a specific stud who is out of driving range. There's no need to buy a preg bitch just because you don't want to buy a male AND female.

Hello there, 1. one decides to buy a mated bitch. 2. Seller ships bitch confirmed pregnant to buyer 3. Bitch loses litter 4. Buyer wants money from seller ? Half price of studfee, free stud ? Maybe reembursment of flightcost ? Well, everybody involved knew about the risks that were taken. For all i can say, the seller did everything he was responsible for. At the point, when the bitch was turned over to the airline, the reponsibility of the seller was over. I know, this s****s but it happens. Now if the seller offers you something, be glad that he does. This is one way it could happen, but as always there is also a 2. way : 1. Buyer buys mated bitch. 2.Seller sends bitch. 3. Buyer recieves bitch. 4. Bitch delivers 12 pups - Buyer recoupes more than he payed for the bitch . Does the buyer now turn around and give some money to the seller ? I dont think so, the guy was lucky - made a good deal ! What i am trying to say is, even if everything is done the proper way, there are unknown factors involved. We all know about the risks that we are taking. We do it when we buy pups, we do it when we buy pregnant females - she could carry only 1 pup - hey, after all she did carry ! Happy Halloween to all ! Ulli Dresbach

Justy as Stephen said I have seen the common offer of the pregnant female at 10k with the idea you recoup your cost of the dog on the first litter. In breedings things can happen, I had one female loose an entire litter, had another get an infection from a dog fight while pregnant, daughter let her out with out checking to see if the other female was put up, she lost half the litter. So breeding and litters are a gamble. I would never over pay for a dog on the chance I was going to recoup my cost on the litter. The way I would buy a pregnant dog would be to figure out what the dog is worth, add stud fee and vet cost for ultra sound plus board. That way you are only out stud fee and vet fee if you looose the litter and you still have a dog worth what you paid. If the kennel is offering you a puppy, it shows they care and are resonable. If you don't need the pup then you can always sell it to someone who does. Shipping dogs in from overseas has it's risk. I have occasionally had a problem, but I am glad I deal with an honorable person when I purchase who has always taken care of things even if it means they take a loss because the original kennel would not do anything. Be very glad the kennel you are dealing with is willing to work with you. Mike

Again thanks to all of you. I am not trying to stir up trouble, all I want is to find out what my options are. I did not pay $10.000, but enough to have put a hohle in my pocket. I am not a professional, this is my hobby. I go to work just as everyone else does. I have been in Schutzhund on and off for years and do not own a kennel yet. I am just starting out. I just wantet to know what was fair to me and the said kennel.

"Stressing the pregnant mothers changed the hormonal environment of the fetus which resulted in nervous offspring"---This statement came from chapter 1 of *Behavioral Genetics and Animal Science*. So yes, frozen semen seems advisable to be used when a female has adjusted to a new environment. ................................................. I thought about the info in this reading matter last week, when Preston and jdh were posting in the thread 'dysplasia', (also, D.H.'s noting the study on golden retrievers in the UK-- about 10 generations of breeding excellent hips, only for HD to reappear). Blitzen's comments in 'favorite time with your dog' also made me think of this reading material, and now this thread... If you're willing to put in some time, read it. Be unemotional about the experiments, and forget that GSD's aren't the primary topic---it provided me with some useful info. If nothing else, makes me want to learn more. the website: http://grandin.com/references/genetics.html Behavioral Genetics and Animal Science

Yes, the offer of a pup is honorable. Shipping times of a bred female can affect the litter....shipping after confirmation of pregnancy is best...too early and stress can cause reabsorbing pups. As Mike says, you can resell the stud fee pup for at least the price of the stud fee plus shipping.

grauerschäferhund, i am sorry that this happened to you, it is always sad when it happens and it hurts. After all, in some way wen put the figures together and then ,,,,,puff, everything out of the window ! Hey, dont loose youtr spirit, wait for the next heat and breed her again. Regards Ulli

Ulli, The only problem you run into (and ask me how I know!!!) is when you get someone who is DISHONEST telling you that your bitch is pregnant, when she in fact, is not. That is a completely different scenario, and was proven through relaxin hormone testing and ultrasound, the day after she arrived, to never have been pregnant in the first place! The female arrived, looked NOT pregnant to me, so I took her to the vet. On palpation, no pups or signs of pregnancy felt (at day 42). Relaxin test NEGATIVE, ultrasound showed NO pups. This calls for refund of HALF the stud fee from the stud owner or a free rebreeding. grauerschaeferhund, unless it is too late, I would have her hormone levels checked to see if she ever WAS pregnant. A good ultrasound tech/repro vet can tell you if the bitch has recently lost pups. ;) Good luck, and I'm sorry for your trouble. I've had 3 of the last 5 females bred in Germany come back not pregnant (two different females to the same male!!!!), so I know what you're going through.