A END OF THE COMMON SENSE AND GOOD DOGS. - Page 5

Tempest in a teapot.  Still talking about a proposed resolution that has not been passed in final form.  Money is the universal language and the FCI is a servant of the member breed organizations.  Germany is the home of the GSD and serves as the country that writes the rules for the GSD.  The FCI is every bit as powerful as the AWDF in the United States and serves the same purpose .. a front for participation by the larger breed clubs to have another set of world championships.  The SV and the VDH write the FCI rules for the GSD.  The FCI does not matter to the GSD world except those who want to be in their shows and competitions.  The VDH tells the FCI what to do or they can pull out and the FCI will have no money.  The 2008 Letter of Understanding betwen the AKC and the FCI show just how powerful it is .. the letter says in essence the FCI will not meddle in AKC business if the AKC does not meddle in FCI business.  A pretty good deal for the AKC considering they are not an FCI member.  Do you honestly think the VDH has any less input and control than the AKC in FCI business as a member and major financial contributor.  Like I said the enforcement will be left to the member organization (VDH) and their member breed clubs (SV) not for the FCI to worry about unless a member organization brings up charges. 

The FCI has no jurisdiction where I live so I am unafraid.  If anyone is really worried about losing their right to train dogs for Schutzhund/IPO then I suggest we talk about Schutzhund as it really exists as an obedience sport primarily (90%) with a little bit of biting a target on a sleeve that most dogs would bite if it was on a post and not a man's arm.  Almost everyone in Schutzhund oversells the biting part and undersells the obedience part.  Some Schutzhund  bred dogs can become police dogs and protection dogs but police and protection dogs are not schutzhund dogs in most cases.  A different skill set and different training to produce a dog for a different job.  Call me at home when they make it illegal to own a GSD in the USA and in NC in particular.  Otherwise I will put up a privacy fence and train as I please but I have no support for those who abuse their dogs for any reason and least of all in the name of training.  Hurting your dog serves no purpose for training and those who use abusive training techniques are traitors to the dog world.  I grew up in an area of Tennessee where the training of horses for the "Walking Horse" breed was common and concentrated.  The use of tail breaking, pain, weights, and sore-ing of horses feet largely destroyed the "Walking Horse" breeders and competitors in the area over a period of twenty or so years and now the area is known for "fainting goats".  The "walking horse" stables stand largely empty of the walking horse breed.  The "walking horse" trainers and owners allowed and actively participated in the injury and painful treatment of the horses for no reason other than money and human ego.  Worth keeping in mind when defending those who injure and torment their dogs in the name of training.

I really think this is as much about the organizations as it is about dog trainers. SV and AKC are much more alike than many care to admit. I guarantee you that police in other countries( other than UK) will not impose these constraints as well as other organizations that cater to the working aspects of the breed like SDA, PSA, KNPV, RIng, etc. The divide will grow just like AKC in America.

the problem isn't about sport or trainning, the problem started inside the VDH, as susie said use of e-collars is forbidden in VDH and in much other country's so they will all support this ok nobody cared about it but now they will
the problem will be obvious in 20years when breeders who wanna breed hard dogs are gonna have big problems finding a suitable stud etc.
EDD and narcotic dogs wont be a problem
these day's it's already difficult to find dogs suitable for special units,perfect health-speed- solid nerves- no fear-good agression but of snapping out of the agression in a second if necessary etc....
i train service dogs as my daily job, sport for pleasure there's a big diffrence between the both so please don't say that sportdogs could go on the streets if they where trainned diffrently because these day's thats no longer the case.
we now have a 15month old son to fix in trainning as an anti terrorism dog, get in bite and don't let go whatever happens i'm pretty sure in 20years if you want this kind of dog as a stud make sure you have frozen semen of him today because unless you breed them yourself and you have frozen semen of diffrent studs you ain't gonna produce this type of dog in 20-30years
​in fact in 30years today's bordercollie's gonna look like really hard dogs if we keep on like this
 

the problem isn't about sport or trainning, the problem started inside the VDH, as susie said use of e-collars is forbidden in VDH and in much other country's so they will all support this ok nobody cared about it but now they will
the problem will be obvious in 20years when breeders who wanna breed hard dogs are gonna have big problems finding a suitable stud etc.
EDD and narcotic dogs wont be a problem
these day's it's already difficult to find dogs suitable for special units,perfect health-speed- solid nerves- no fear-good agression but of snapping out of the agression in a second if necessary etc....
i train service dogs as my daily job, sport for pleasure there's a big diffrence between the both so please don't say that sportdogs could go on the streets if they where trainned diffrently because these day's thats no longer the case.
we now have a 15month old son to fix in trainning as an anti terrorism dog, get in bite and don't let go whatever happens i'm pretty sure in 20years if you want this kind of dog as a stud make sure you have frozen semen of him today because unless you breed them yourself and you have frozen semen of diffrent studs you ain't gonna produce this type of dog in 20-30years
​in fact in 30years today's bordercollie's gonna look like really hard dogs if we keep on like this
 

While the FCI doesn't have legal authority here I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss that nothing here in the US won't be affected. Case in point is the AWDF...the organization has been chasing the FCI carrot for over two decades and other than the UScA and DVG every other club within gains their ability to host trials, earn titles based through the AWDF which gains much of it's credibility world wide via the FCI. It was just last year I believe that one of the FCI judges chastised the AWDF competitors at the AWDF IPO Championship for the use of training collars.

Keith

Bubba, you don´t understand - in Germany / Europe - we ( the SV, DVG, dhv ) already lost.
Being more than 100.000 members only in Germany didn´t help against law.
Things become worse year after year, not made by clubs or organizations, but by official law.

The clubs try everything to survive without getting more and more restrictions. The "BH" trial was invented, there is no more "Schutzhund" trial, but IPO, sounds less aggressive...
The clubs had to follow these restrictions ( no use of e-collars / no official use of pinch collars ) otherwise LAW would have the possibility to forbid dogsport at all and now.

You are absolutely right with saying nobody on earth should be allowed to mistreat any animal, but there is a big difference between abuse and training.
These restrictions are a result of the behavior of cruel, mislead "trainers" and a result of mislead over motivated animal rights activists.
Times change...

Edit to add: , but there is a big difference between abuse and training. - AT LEAST THERE SHOULD BE !

maybe workingdogpeople schould start their own international organisation whithout all thr political bullschit, issue own pedigree's and titles, but i fear that will be impossible

kyto, I sent you a PM.