Fun Poll--What would your dog do? - Page 12

Real Dog great subject, I wish every one could have seen Real Videos on Saturday night. It was a classic example of a dog running around biting clothing instead of the man. The bad guy was not only not bit but allowed the bad guy to over power the officer and take his gun from him. The bad guy struck the dog with what appeared to be glacing blows and it was enoungh to cause the dog to stay out of the fight. The dog never did engage the man. The officer was about to be shot with his own weapon when it jammed. the bad guy told the officer your going to die as he pulled the trigger. K-9 sat there. The officer ended up killing the bad guy with his back up revolver as the man fled. It was a classic scenario of a dog that does not really want to put his teeth on flesh and a dog that will run on self preservation. Dogs are not stupid enough to stay in a battle they percieve to be too much for them. Only fighting dogs, Pits, Bandogs, etc have the " gameness" to not be affected by pain and fear. Self preservation is the strongest drive there is. They indicated the dog was retired because of injuries sustained. I do not believe this. I believe they retired him because he would not fight. Sadly this is not uncoman. It has been my oberservation that Police dept. are getting pretty good dogs these days.

Most of the dogs I see are coming from the Czech Rep. or German working lines. 25-30 years ago they got donated weak dogs that were taught to look tough and go through the motions. Bottum line is that dogs have a real block when it comes to putting their teeth on flesh, and they will usually take the path of least resistance or the least risk to themselves when pain and survival may be an issue. There are some good dogs out their that can transition over that no bite rule, and some that will fight a man face to face even when pain is involved, but these dogs are not the norm and they need proper training with a no none sense trainer. Agitaters that are able to put themselves in the bad guys shoes, not just physical and not just formulas. It's about reading the dog and pushing and pushing to bring out the most and knowing when to back off so the dog wins. I hope every one that desire's to know what their dogs would really do, are able to find a good k-9 or private trainer to set up situationals. It's worth the $$ to know. To me this is the most exciting training in the world. Putting yourself against the dog and sometimes accidently taking a real bite in the process. I have been bitten numerous times in the process of challenging the dog and pushing it to the limit. Have your agitator kick , punch or offer any thing he can to turn the dog on as long as the dogs wins big in the end. It's about the dogs success. The dog must realize he is in a real fight and bite whatever he can, no body parts are sacred. I have gone on long enough and I doubt this will even get read at this late date. P.S. for those that might think I would be abusive in the above scenarios, I am not. My whole consern is for the dogs and the well being of the owner. AS Real Dog stated it is simply about knowing what you have. I hope every one has the dog they think they have. Where can we get the unconditional love that we get from them. I have a big fat headed Czech male pup that loves me to death and weather he protects me or not doesn't matter to me. That he protects my wife is another matter.

my lab mix, would bark, and run...no doubt about it!

As I said before, I feel sorry for those that have GSDs that are whimps (and a substantial number of so called working temperament dogs and service dogs are whimps, unfortunately--these dogs should not be Sxch trained). A GSD of normal temperament is the only breed that can reliably make accurate assessment of an intruder or stranger, follow it up immediately with an judgment and then sponatneously execute a proportionately measured action of appropriate force commensurate with the problem. The hardest GSDs I have sen in over 40 years are the ones that are rock solid, nothing scares them )(gunshots, firecrackers don't phase them), friendly around kids and those welcomed in one's home. Typically these ideal temperament GSDs live in the house and bond with an owner that is devoted to them first. These dogs then totally devote themselves to their master and will give their life in an instant to fight and protect their master. Many are somewhat wary of strangers until accepted by the owner/master. Many of these dogs that are of this normal and desired GSD temperament have a strong backgraound of herding back in the pedigree and can easily be trained to herd. I have known of a number of GSDs like this to "herd" one's young kids when they play in the back yard, keeping them in the yard and strangers out, watching over them carefully. I have a GSD that "herds" my cat and protects him too when strangers come to the door or come in to do work in the house. This dog will instantly respond to any threat with appropriate force and has done so in the past with no hesitation.

part 2: I gave an import to a very close friend of mine many years ago. In the summer when neighbors came to their screen door and knocked and called in, the owners would say "come on in" and the GSD would greet them at the door and grab their wrist and take them to where the they were. But the dog never hurt them. The neighbors thought it was neat. If anyone who they didn't know tried to come in the dog stopped them using escalating force appropriate to the situation to accomplish the task of stopping them. The dog had its own bedroom (one of their kids was grown up) and would always want to turn in at 8 pm, unless something was going on. The dog would sleep on the bed like a person. If there was any noise or someone at the door, the dog would be up and at the door before the doorbell would ring or a knock occurred. The dog was good around kids, friends, neighbors and their kids, rabbits, and cats and yet was a complete man stopper (proven on one occasion in real time). I have seen a fair number of dogs like this. There are a substantial number of GSD breeders in Germany, Europe, USA, Canada and Mexico and South America which produce GSDs with this normal temperament (some are zuchtschau kennels and some profung kennels). The stories about progeny out of the youth Sieger Eros Luisenstrasse are legendary and a majority of his progeny were natural family protectors and proven manstoppers in real time. Eros was a zuchtschau GSD and had so much courage and innate need to protect his master it was astounding. Many of his progeny had perfect temperament also. A prime example of such a progeny was the highly esteemed VA Utz Hirschel owned by Kirchenwald Kennels. More perfect GSD temperament never existed and this dog was from a famous German zuchschau kennel. The perfect and totally impressive temperament of the highly esteemed VA Mutz Pelztierfarm and many of his progeny is also well documented and legendary in Germany and Italy. To this day his influence is still felt in certain bloodlines. Unless you have owned a GSD with this type of reliable, safe, true working type temperament or seen it repeatedly first hand one cannot understand what I am talking about. The more you love and care for your GSD, the more it will love you, the greater will be its devotion to you and the more it will defend you, if it has normal temperament. Sch. training that is done on dogs in many cases is not necessary for a home protection GSD and can "muddy the waters" making the dog more difficult to manage around others, unless the dog is perfect mentally and very well trained. In the mid 1920's my mothers parents imported a female GSD. This dog was extremely intelligent, had perfect temperament and supervised their kids playing in the yard. It would let boys in the yard with shorts on but not if they had long pants on or were adult men. It watched over my mom and the neighbor kids who played in their yard and was devoted to all the kids and my mom' parents. One time my grandmother was walking to the corner store (her GSD always accompanied her when she did so) and a man running to catch a street car bumped into her as he was attempting to run by. The dog immediately grabbed him in the butt and ripped out the seat of his pants before he even passed my grandmother. My grandmother offered to buy him another pair of pants, but was happy with the dog's behavior. The dog made them all feel very safe and lived a very long life. This is the temperament that is normal for a GSD and all should be bred to have it.

Back in 1989, I saw a video of one of Larry Filo's dogs competing in Profung in Germany. More times than not this GSD hit the helpers so hard it would spin them and knock them down. It was the hardest hitting GSD I had ever seen. I don't remember the dog's name but I called Larry and said I want one of this dog's best puppies. Larry's wife had placed 3rd in the W. German Bundesseigerprofung with one of their dogs and was the first American ever to be pictured with a GSD on the cover of the SV Magazine. I don't know what they have now, but at that time Stenig Tal had some awesome GSDs. I bought a black sable puppy out of this dog, and the puppy was rock solid mentally and unbelievably intelligent. This dog lived in our home with us full time and was totally devoted to us and our kids. When we would talk to him he would tilt his head back and forth. When we were going to take him for a walk, we didn't want to mention it until right before because he would get his lease and get too excited and start barking. So we stopped saying walk and started spelling it. He figured that out too. He knew many words and also knew what we meant when we spelled certain things. The dog stopped a daytime burglary when I was home on one occasion, driving the young man right out the door he broke into and would have taken him down if I hadn't called him off. There were other incidents in which he proved himself and responded proportionately and approptriately, making very sound judgements. I tested him a number of times with a GSD enthusiast who dressed up in padded suit and stick and ran at the dog and the dog performed perfectly. The dog was incapable of fear and yet was friendly and super sound when taken out in public. He completed three obediance courses and always learned very quickly. He didn't need any protection training or Sch to do the job of protecting our home and us. I know that Steinig Tal Kennels used to have many GSDs with this kind of normal temperament. I don't know what Larry has now, but I'm certain he wouldn't have GSDs without this kind of normal GSD temperament. And there are a substantial number of other kennels in the USA, some profung and some zuchschau, with W. German imports that produce GSDs with this kind of normal GSD temperament. Once you have a GSD with this normal temperament you'd never settle for less.

Preston, a question for you. Why do you think a GSD takes a stranger by the wrist and leads him off the property? My dog does that to people he doesn't know. Has never put a mark on any of them but so far he has dispatched a floral delivery person who walked into the yard unannounced, a neighbor who followed my husband to our deck and a second stranger as he was getting out of his car. I've heard that it is considered a bite and that he is a dog with excellent bite inhibition. Do you agree? Thanks.

Blitzen, your GSD does this because he has "normal temperament", is smart as can be, has good judgement, and makes appropriate decisions. This is why your dog is worth his weight in gold. This is what a GSD should be. You are very fortunate to have such a dog. Your dog knows what a real threat is and what isn't and can execute actions appropriate to such accurate judgements. Does your Dog have herding dogs back a ways? Isn't it a joy to have such a smart GSD with such temperament?

My girl tends to respond to a situation by reading my reaction rather than getting hyped by the bad guy. If I remain cool and focused, so does she. There have been three real life incidents where I have given the *Watch him* command. Each time she has put herself between me and the threat, ears up, barely has to curl her lip and give a low growl. Those situations are ones where there has been a warning that something wasn't right. She didn't respond until told to do so. We have never been in a real life circumstance where there has been no warning such as being jumped from behind. I do admit that her hearing is much better than mine, as is her eyesight. I would be suprised if anyone could get close enough to do any real harm other than raising my bp.

Preston, I'm not sure if there are any herding dogs behind Blitz. He sire is Trienzbachtal, his dam Arlett and Sieben Burgen. I didn't really understand him for a few years and even had him evaluated by a behaviorist who told me that was a bite albeit a controlled one. She also thought he was "way too smart for his own good" whatever that meant. I'll admit it was pretty unnerving the first time I watched him take the neighbor by his wrist, lead him down the steps off our deck and up the driveway toward the street. He seems to be more accepting of strangers if we introduce them to him after they are seated inside the house or on the deck rather than letting him remove before they have had their first beer. That's a good way to lose friends LOL.