Are Titles Necessary Before Breeding? - Page 5

Here's a story... My dad bred Registered Angus Cattle, even produced some National Champions, was featured in the AI breed book several years, But then something happened in the breed of the Angus cattle, They kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger... Eventually it was recognized that these larger cattle were placing higher and higher and higher in the show rankings, But what they had given up was the calving ease, suddenly birth weight was higher and calving ease was almost lost, then a few breeders who recognized the problem began a program to try to "fix" it. However for the most part the Angus cattle of today are almost 9x's larger than the angus cattle of years past. The standard height of an Angus bull in the 50's was no taller than a shetland pony, My dad's philosphy on this was, That meat between the belly and ground sure got expensive. Do you get it ?? There are GSD standards that have been in place for many many years, and The Capt. put them there if my goals are to adhere to those standards then I highly doubt I will be the demise of the GSD. However if those who wish to Strive above and beyond continue to narrow the gene pools and be bullied into beleive that only KKL and SChH titles are dogs that should be bred, we will be into the same mess as the Angus Cattle breed are now stuck with. NO going back for them. We still have time with these dogs, Yes strive for better temperament, working ability, and correctness in structure. But why always go one way or the other on the extremes ? A nut I may be, whatever I don't care, But at least this nut has some education, and MOST IMPORTANTLY CONTINUES MY EDUCATION.

Hey Ech: Nuts are very important in our diet ..they contain some of the most important nutrients we need to survive...so stay a nut.....most of them come at a high price at the marketplace also and Drs. tell u to eat plenty of them so Nuts are very important to life gene pools....dogs eat them also.....flax seed, pecans with pumpkin do a dog good once in a while for a treat...at least they dont have BHA and red dye in them.....(grin)

After reading all the remarks of everyone speaking on this site. It's obvious that Echomeadows is breeding only for the money. Her remarks are NUTS Take it however you want Ms. Texas. After reading other posts by Echo I see she's very rude and insulting to others. Just like said by someone else, dishes it out but can't take it. I don't write here much as it seems that all the intelligent members are gone. It's sad. Most of the conversations are taken over here as of late are by wanna-be's who are full of opinions but no substance or correctness to what comes out of their mouths. Looking out for their own interests and not that of the breed. It's really sad, sad and doubly sad the state of this site. I know this topic would have had a different spin if the regulars were still here. Hodie is one of the hold outs but her advise didn't seem to sink in. Poor Hodie ended up beating that dead horse again. I hope those who think with their heads instead of their mouths will take her good comments to heart and understand that she was conveying as gospel. As it's some of the best advise/opinions here as of late thanks Hodie for taking the time to explain. I surely hope you won't be taking in any of the pups by this new crop of posters here to this site. Arrakis

Arrakis : Then why dont u stay on board and lend to the intellegence needed here.. dont run off , if u can improve things, Im sure Bob-o, Hodie, Do right and all the rest , that I cant remember, would like u to lend us ur book of revelations to the breed we need to learn about and offer suggestions on bettering ourselves.....we ran off the trolls , I think , help us out?????

Arrakis, Thank you for your comments. There are many on this board still who do try to help and do try to make people think about what they are doing. I wll not name them because they know who they are and they know they are knowledgeable and respected for what they post. I would not want to miss someone who knows I know and respect them. As for me, yes, sometimes I think seriously about simply never looking at this site again. It is so filled with misinformation I can sometimes hardly stand it. A good case in point is the current discussion on Nerves vs. confidence. But some of that is forgiveable where as posting outlandish unscientific and unsupported things about diseases or cures is simply not forgiveable. I am not sure that Echo gets everything I am saying, but I respect the fact that after the small tantrum above he/she stayed and tried to answer questions and state his/her opinion. Clearly I do not agree with everything he/she said and I have made that clear. My personal opinion of the breeding going on has been, at the very least, intimated. But I am neither trying to bully nor close the discussion. Nor can I do anything about his/her breeding practices. My hope, although fading, is that something I wrote will hit home and that perhaps some change might be considered. I am writing in hopes that perhaps some of what I wrote is part of his/her further consideration and the consideration of others who are breeding litter after litter. I also respect the fact that, according to Echo, he/she has been involved in GSD rescue, although I am not clear at all as to what that has entailed on a personal level or what kind of personal sacrifices he/she may have made to that end. I personally feel that breeding litter after litter is counter to saying one is involved in rescue as there are NEVER enough homes for unwanted GSDs or other dogs. Personally, though I believe I have some fine dogs, I AGONIZE everytime I even think about mating two dogs because each month I receive between 8-15 emails and phone calls from people looking to dump their GSD and I know how hard it is to really find quality homes as I define them. So I waste my dogs because I cannot bring myself to be part of the problem. From that comes part of my fanaticim. And part comes as well from my experiences with people in my area who could give a damn about the breed but only care for the money and who are doing nothing to improve the breed as I understand that concept. Continued:

The fact is, this forum is a place where we can come to speak and debate these and other issues. My main beef with this site is how many people post things which are simply not correct and are so outlandish as to be ridiculous. My suggestion is that unless one has scientific proof behind comments like allergy shots destroy the immune system and such that one not post them. To post does mean that people who know better will always feel compelled to correct those types of statements. A second beef is how every litter posted is deemed to be the next greatest thing for the breed as a whole and the dogs will be able to do just about anything and everything. That clearly is BS and it suggests again that most people are in this for all the wrong reasons, and that reason is MONEY. Nor is it correct to say v. Stephanitz set the breed standards. He certainly did not. I could go on and on, but, as Arrakis points out, yes, in fact, I am beating a dead horse because so many people are simply using this and other forums as places to write ill-formed and sometimes uniformed opinions. I try to separate opinion from facts and I wish some of the rest who post often would do so too. Finally, no purpose is served in calling someone a name. So I would prefer that names not be called, and certainly names not called in defense of me. Some probably think I am arrogant and harsh, and that is fine. I am direct but that is simply who I am and at my age, I believe I have earned that right. I know who I am and I know what I have done to date as concerns this breed and I know what else I have done in life that was hopefully played some small part in making things better all around. No one can question my love for this breed and my efforts to change the direction in my own small way have been clear to anyone who cares to look. So thank you Arrakis for noticing. As for nuts, they have good benefits but at least one is toxic to dogs.

Hodie, some listen and are learning. Don't go away. -Tina

Ok, I Have been watching this post since it started and now I have something to say. I too IMO believe this Echomeadows person is breeding for all wrong reasons. Just because your dogs have great temperments does not make them qualified for breeding. You explained temperment earlier and again IMO you have described PETS.The shelters are cramed with pets people have dumped. You should know this since you do rescue. Just because you placed some pups in a working home does not prove they can actually do the work they were sold to do. When they are all certified then you can toot your horn. Now on to "Hodie" You have been going back and forth with this echo person and alot of what you have said I agree with but you yourself is now "calling the kettle black" Quote from you: "IF I BREED YES,I WILL IN FACT BE HONEST AND SAY I AM GOING TO BREED THE LITTER FOR THE MONEY" and just because you spent alot of money on your dogs you need to breed to make your money back. SHAME ON YOU. What ever happened to improving the breed you love so much. Another quote from u: "MOST PEOPLE ARE IN THIS FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS AND THAT REASON IS MONEY" that means you yourself are in it for all the wrong reasons, RIGHT? Alot of "you so called breeders" are making my decisions to go to a diff. working breed alot easier.

Jettasmom, You missed my point about money. The fact of the matter is that at the most basic level it is always about money. But, to be more plain, of course, I will and do ONLY breed to make a specific improvement. As for my feeling shame for ever breeding a dog I own, I won't ever feel shame because I know why I am breeding, who I am breeding, what I expect the breeding produce and finally, will make sure each and every pup will live in an appropriate home for life. I doubt you or anyone else on this forum has even in their lifetime spent what I have spent in time, effort and MONEY out of my own pocket on taking GSDs no one wanted which deserved to have a new home. You can question me all you wish, but I think you might better wait until you know the real facts. I have bred two litters and of those two litters, I sold two pups. The rest I still own. I hardly think that qualifies as selling my soul for money. But going to a different working breed might be enlightening for you.

Jettasmom, with no disrespect, you need to reread Hodie's posts. I think you may have misinterpreted what she said. I think she is one of the most honest, plain speaking and caring people on the sight. I am truely impressed with her knowledge and candor. If I need to say more than that then you'll never really understand where she is coming from. Hodie, I know you don't need anyone sticking up for you. I am impressed with your civility when under fire.