Are Titles Necessary Before Breeding? - Page 6

Spook101, Thank you. Jettasmon did miss my point. My point in saying that if I bred it would also end up being for money is that unless I give the pups away, indeed, it is a financial transaction. For some, that is most important and a consideration in all breeding and, indeed, in owning multiple dogs of breeding age. For me, money is the absolutely least important reason to breed. If I had no qualms about breeding litter after litter as many who post on this forum do, I would not be working 7 days a week, 16 hour days, with no help. Nor would I go without things I need to make sure I provided for the dogs I own or have here who are rescues. But thanks for the help! I do appreciate it. Now back to something really important.....football playoff games....LOL.

Arrakis, You so notedly took note to my being "rude" Did you also not the ones who were so "rude" to me as well which started all of this ??? Doubt it as you did not seem to mention it. Know the whole story before you jump in. Did you also note that Zmeli is breeding an 18 month old bitch with no hip Xray and no Brucelosis test ?? oh you missed that too.. oops. Again know the whole story. Oh that's right though, Zmeli's male has a Sch title she purchased him with it, so that makes it ok. and an 18 mo. old bitch must be clear of any venerial disease right ? Come on this whole thing started over Zmeli breeding an 18 mo. old ON PURPOSE !!! and I end upon the stake for it. So now what do you have to say about Zmeli's breeding practices ??? Is it right to breed an 18 mo. old bitch without hip certs ?? Is it right to breed any dog without Brucelosis tests ?? mm wonder what we will all have to say now ? Oh and I don't think I've been "rude" to you at all if I have hit a nerve with this post well then maybe it's because you did NOT read the whole story did you ?

Hodie, I did not miss anthing at all with what you said yourself. I did not say "shame on you for breeding a dog you own, I refered to you breeding a litter just for the money,so you can recoup on what you put in. Don't put words in my mouth. That is not a reason to breed. Also what does "you helping unwanted GSDS" have anything to do with the quotes you stated? All I did was make you aware of what you said and how you also called the kettle black. Looks like I struck a nerve with you. All I did was quote you on what you said. I am sure the true ethical breeeders that are out there are not doing it for the money they do it because they love the breed and want to improve for the betterment of the breed. If they happen to make some money it is put right back into their breeding program. Take a look at Molly Graf(Eichenluft) and her breedings I have alot of respect for "true breeders like herself. Maybe some of you so called breeders can learn something from her.

Jettasmom, your response does not deserve a response so I will drop it for the sake of others who use this forum.

I never asked you to respond

Hodie: My vet Dr. Marcus Alexander told me that the use of starting allergy shots , on an eight mo old gs male pup who scratched constantly and was having tests run by a vet in another county, and stated he was alergic to pine , dust, and several other items, is not needed at this age. It shuts down the natural immune system and the dog,yes may be alergic to those , items but u can go different avenues at that early age, because once u start the shots, its a lifetime thing, to make the body produce the things that that shot makes work.....The pup had many tests to determine if it was dermadectic, or any other of the demons, and my vet ask that I talk him into doing as I already had ask him to do.....He was feeding what the vet told him too, which was science diet and had been giving him mega doses of an antibiotic, with no open wounds present and I did not believe an 8 month old pup needed all that in him...All of us and dogs too, Im sure,are allergic to something.....but in this case the dogs is now on a raw meat diet,,,,doesnt touch a kibble and hes doing much better, infact, hes a different dog.. I stopped him 1 week short of starting the shots that they were haveing to prepare according to the vile full of whatever the dog is suppose to be allergic too...So I think my vet, in this case , was correct , and this wasnt the first case either, but I wont take the space to explain the other that was fed Ole Ray and she had so many skin problems at 6 mos old, even was diagnosed as dermadectic,,,,I picked dog up and headed straight to vet and the dog was not dermadectic, and we did three more weeks in a row or testing...The dog was being given herbs, garlique, Ivemectin, dipped, and still fed Ole Roy and he puked carpet and strings, plastic parts and rubber pieces of something in the vets office....and a button and a piece of something we didnt even know...The other vet said we can run battery of alergy test next and start him on allergy shots...My vet said take dog home , do what I knew to do and that dog is in Dallas Texas, one year later, on a ranch, beautiful, hair, teeth, drive galore, loves its new master, and is herding cattle for a hobby. Sure glad I didnt leave the dog in the care of those other people... You have my respect Hodie, but some of us do have other experiences that prove us right also. I would not have put it on this site had I not known it to be true...and my vet can answer the rest . Im not a vet, but I feel like I am, and I have seen and stopped some big booboos where diagnosis of germans shepherds were very wrong..........My vet made the statement so I guess he knows what he talking about.....

Jettasmom, You said "just because you spent alot of money on your dogs you need to breed to make your money back. SHAME ON YOU" If a breeder does not breed for money then they'd give all the pups away, how many breeders do you see do that? For most people I think breeding and the desire to breed is a culmination of all the time, effort and money put into their dogs for titling. Titling to prove their dog is the a true representative of the breed and the breed standard, temperament and working ability. Some people will breed with far less proven. For me it is kind of like an end goal, how can I prove that my dog is the best representative of the GSD, health certs., temperament tests, therapy dog certs., working titles. I am proud of my dog and what I've accomplished with him and look foreward to others being proud of having his name in their pups pedigree. For the record I've never bred a litter myself nor do I want to breed a litter any time soon, but have studded him out once (yes Echo Brucelosis was done, lol). Will I stud him out for free? NO, why because any time he's used for stud the money goes back into my dog. I will never make a profit, I've invested more in him than I can ever re-coup, but thats okay, its my hobby my passion, i'm not in it for the money. But if I can earn something along the way it helps. Is that wrong? I think the same goes for breeders, aside from training and titling the parents, it takes alot of effort to raise a litter, are they not entitled to charge people for their time? Like Hodie said "at the most basic level it is always about money" this shit aint free. You should be more critical of those people who just buy any old male and female and put no effort or invest any time or money into them, just let them grow up and procreate, then turn around and sell the pups for hundreds even thousands of dollars. Those are the people who are PROFITING, yes even for the reputable breeders its always about money but NOT about profit. JMO, Regards, Melanie

Question, for the breeders....... Does anyone feel that the standards have fallen, as far as what type of dog is able to be titled? Do you assume that all title dogs are as good as the best or as bad as the worst? And for the breeders that have been breeding for 5 + years how do you measure success? If you are trying to improve the breed do you look at sch titles, level of success or show rating? And if you have not imporved your dogs from sg to v or va, would you consider your program a success?

Yellowrose, No, not every animal or human is allergic to something. This is exactly the type of statement you make over and over and shows a basic lack of understanding of not only the immune system, in this case, but just about most subjects. Secondly, no dog should ever receive anything in lieu, meaning instead of, proper nutrition. Any idiot knows that there are plenty of foods out there that are cheap and crap and missing vital amino acids, oils and proteins. Food that does NOT provide enough nutrition for a dog will absolutely manifest itself in all kinds of problems, including skin problems and a variety of other problems. One only need read a good book on skin and nutrition to learn this. The fact that the dog was put on better food, be it a kibble or in this case, a raw food, was the simple and most basic thing to do. It would be the first thing I would ask someone who brought their dog to me with skin issues and many times I have helped people by making a suggestion that they provide a higher quality of food. I am simply astounded at how many people buy foods like Ol' Roy etc and are pleased because they bought 40 lbs for under $10 bucks. In any case, if a given human or dog is allergic to something, no, providing allergy treatment that is appropriate to the condition does NOT destroy the immune system as you so boldly noted in a post above. But to give allergy shots prior to discovering what the real problem is, of course, would be an incorrect therapy. Fortunately, this vet saw the problem from the most basic level and correctly noted what most likely was the problem. Too many people fail to start at the beginning when trying to solve a problem and too many people make false assumptions about cause and effect. As for jettasmom, she fails to note that I have spent thousands and thousands and thousands of my own money on rescue GSDs. I have also spent many, many thousands on the dogs I own. And if and when I breed a litter, yes, the MONEY I admit to obtaining from the sale of any pup, should I sell a pup, will either go back into my rescue work or my breeding program. Of course it will. Someone has to be out to lunch to miss that. Joan come lately did not bother to read things carefully and probably has an ax to grind. I could care less.

wscott00, I don't have YEARS of experience but I would like to comment that some of the dogs who I see recieve a pronounced rating are NOT worthy. JMO