Are Titles Necessary Before Breeding? - Page 7

same here.. i was just wondering if a title makes a dog worthy of breeding, because ive seen several dogs recieve titles that werent very good. im also interested in how breeders measure success. it seems like if your goal is to "Better the Breed" then there would be a need for measureing stick. For example if you are breeding show dogs, how much better is you G litter than your B litter. I'd say if you started w/ G or SG dogs and you arent consistantly produceing V and VA1-3 dogs, then you arent making the breed any better

I am not a breeder, just a purchaser! I do think titling a dog before breeding is important, (titles under good judges). I also want to see titles back at least 5 generations. I am only talking about sport types here. When I talk to a breeder abut the drives in a prticular litter, I think only the breeder who trains & titles understands what I am looking for as far as nerves, hardness, etc.. I think it is important to know & trust your breeder.

Sueincc, Excellent Post Very well thought, and Good for you on the know and Trust your breeder !!! That statement speaks volumes for your intelligence and obvously you've been around a while and know how to do your homework !!! :-) I like your statement about someone who trains knows about the drives and how to compare them to what your wishes/wants are in comparison with a particular pup too, again shows you know what your talking about !! I like you beleive in Titles yes, do not beleive they are the end all though. Just my beleive not trying to start anything just commenting that I do beleive they are good tool !! But seeing is beleiving in my Opinion. Anyway just wanted to say I really appreciate your thoughts on the subject and wanted to let you know that. :-)

Personally, for me titles are necessary before breeding. If I had wanted to breed specifically for money, I wouldn't have bothered to put in all the hard work, time, energy, and mileage. I would just breed the dogs. However, what is more important to me is whether or not those "titles" are earned or bought. It is interesting that this subject has come up. Recently, I asked someone, whose opinion and knowledge I trust, to honestly answer some questions I have about my current competition dog. I wanted to know in the WORK what her weaknesses and strengths are. Owners/handlers/trainers sometimes don't see clearly the ability or lack there of in their own dogs. In conformation I know what my dog has, and when it comes to breeding I know what I need to find to compliment her conformation. For two years I have been searching for a stud dog that would compliment her in the work. There are many many dogs out there with working titles, breed surveys and conformation ratings. However, the majority of them don't meet the criteria I need or want for my breeding program. If I just wanted a litter I could breed this bitch to anything that met the SVs criteria. Then I could sell those pups most likely to pet homes. I don't want pet pups (yes, I know a few in each litter won't measure up to what I want). I want people to look at my breeding program and say I contribute to the breed, not that I breed for the sake of breeding a litter, because my dogs are titled. I am not a large kennel, and I most likely never will be. I don't consider myself a hobby breeder, because what I want to do is more than a hobby. It is actually an obsession with me. My goal is to have show line dogs that actually work. When I say work, I mean work, I don't mean dogs that get titles then go onto breed and you never see them on the trial field again. I guess that was a long winded answer, but yes, titles are important to ME, but I want real titles, not titles bought and paid for. I want the titles to mean something. I want them honestly. Do I fault someone for breeding untitled dogs? I don't fault people who breed search dogs ( i have one). I agree with whomever it was above that said there are entirely too many pet quality dogs produced as it is. (Sorry that was paraphrasing) Maybe it is time the average pet owner joe realizes the breed isnt for everyone. By breeders producing a "toned down" version of the GSD it hurts our breed more than it benefits it. Give me a minute to dig out my flame proof suit before the flaming arrows are shot at me.

I think your comments are valid and well put... I think it would be a shame if anyone shot arrows at you for your thoughts. Though trust me I know it happens, LOL :-)

THat would depend on whose standard you are bredding to . if you follow the SV rules (you know them, they are the ones who founded the breed) then they are. along with show rating and a KKL. then again, we live in the US, and how dare anyone tell us what we can or cannot breed. we have the "luxurary" of the akc to give us registration papers. Deeswolf, very nice, for a moment i thought someone was reading my mind.

"Do people here still believe that your dog should have titles and breed surveys before producing a litter of puppies by said dogs?" For me, Yes. I personally will not be breeding my own female until she has earned her titles. Since I am training and handling her, I will know that they are truly 'earned' titles. I have already shown her in conformation and will continue to do so. I appreciate hearing the judge's critique, as it helps me to learn more about my own dog and to evaluate her as she grows and matures. I will know her strengths and weaknesses first hand. And even then, it will take a lot of thought into finding the right male for her when the time comes. "What about a BH is that considered far enough of a title to make your dog breedworthy?" No. A BH is not a title, it's a evaluation of the dog to determine if it has acceptable temperament to be a companion dog. It is a pre-requirement of the SchH1. I think one of the biggest problems with breeding is kennel blindness. You have to be honest with yourself and your dog in order to do the breed justice. That's just one of the reason's I had my male neutered. Marsha Seck

Only if you're ethical and are trying to do what is best for the breed.

Apparently that was not the general feeling of the majority of the board, The majority felt they are valuable tools, but not necessary to be considered Ethical. Ethics are completely different from Major League. Seen some Major leaguers that don't take pups back, That's Ethical ??

As usual, that is a preposterous conclusion on your part. While it may be true that a majority of responders on this particular thread may have indicated that titles aren't necessary for them, it is hardly conclusive that the majority on this board feel that way. Whenever this subject comes up the most vocal tend to be those that don't plan, title, korklasse, etc. The real breeders have a tendency to be confident and their product and, for the most part, avoid this squabble. It is the newby that receives the one sided picture that you try to present and then ends up with less then what they could have had at a "bargain" price. It appears to be your habit to convolute facts in order to attempt to prove a point in your favor. The fact is that if given the choice and adequate information most people would buy from a reputable dealer who plans, titles, korklasses and honestly represents their dogs and what they are capable of, rather than the alternative. Do I need to say what that alternative is?