IPO-R title - Page 4

Correct on all accounts. I was unable to do bitework and do SAR with my dogs. It is very frowned upon but no enforceable laws on doing bite work with my service dog. I cannot any longer do SAR, due to injuries suffered at one of the search and rescue ops mentioned in this thread and I refuse to go in to just how awful what zdog has said with the ignorance of what happened on the sites mentioned. I cannot do the rough training and work of my past sar missions due to my physical limitations, so now I learn SCH.... anyone get this? I want to see zdog pass a SAR certification and do SAR and then still hold the ignorant viewpoint displayed here in this thread. 

My dog's grandsire was shown with HGH before sch 3, if I am not incorrect. It was found that, again if I am not remembering things wrong not to be as favorable as sch title. HGH is not a walk in the park and I doubt many sch dogs could ever achieve it.  He now holds both.... how many dogs do? very very few. I have neuro issues that sometimes messes with my memory and perhaps I will contact his owner to get a refresher. It takes a lot of dedication and a special dog to obtain both and to me proves a gsd is a gsd when they can do more than one job as the utility animal they were created to be.

 

I guess I did go off on a tangent if that's how you see it.  I guess if an IPO-R is the equivalent of an RH and that is an acceptable breed suitability test, but that dog can't pass an IPO-1, then I'd question it's usefulness.  Then more than one decided to say that bitework wasn't important, i think it is. 

There is a difference in drive between doing a track and doing protection, it's kind of the point. and why both should be present in a dog used for breeding.  At least imo.  Keep breeding dogs that have parts missing and I don't think it will be too long till a lot of the dog is missing.  Just because an IPO dog doesn't do an RH , though many have, doesn't mean they can't.  I"m not saying IPO is perfect, but in training for it, if a person is honest, they can certainly see what their dog has and what it doesn't.  The title itself doesn't mean it's a breedworthy dog. but if you're doing another title and say your dog doesn't have what it takes to do an entry level IPO test, I don't think it should be breed surveyed.  It's missing parts.  you can see how a dog tracks in IPO, just because it can drag a handler down the track, casting, hectic, blowing articles and corners and can still pass with a 70, doesn't mean it's breedworthy either. But a methodical tracker who puts his nose down and works the track is pretty evident.  You can see what dogs will most likely be able to be brought further along with training.  Some of those dogs also have great or at least more than acceptable levels to do bitework as well.  Like I said, an honest assessment of your dog.  Just because it passes doesn' t deem it breedworthy.  But if it is breedworthy it should be able to pass.

I'm sorry SAR powers that be won't allow bitework.  I think it's silly.  Those that know dogs should know better I think.  

and yes it will be a heck of challenge getting all our IPO3 dogs to do an HGH considering there are maybe one or two clubs again in the entire country that do it and those are lucky to consist of 2 members.  There is no herding within a thousand miles of here other than chase 3 sheep around a pen type stuff.  It is one thing I wish we had access to, but who has the herds for us to use?  who has the lands?  who can help us learn?  But I think I can see a good dog when it's there doing IPO, I can see the confidence and the drive.  The commitment to a grip and how it is maintained.  I can see it in their play actions with each other, i can see it in their focus for me, a ball, a deer, another farm animal etc.  I don't think the herding instinct is lost on these dogs.

GSDnewbie, i'm an awful awful awful person.  :)  you must be good in sar, you play a victim very well frequently.  

HGH has always been a breedable title as far as I know and I know I have never looked upon it unfavorably.  And apparently modern day stuff isn't as good as the olden day stuff in IPO, wasn't bitework a bigger part of the "olden" HGH compared to today?  Hmmmmmmmm?

victims give up, I do not..... I say what is on my mind and that does not win friends. I stand by what I think and feel. Sorry if being a human makes you think I feel like a victim. I wear physical and mental scars, but it does not make me a "victim" It takes a strong person to live by their convictions especially when not being agreed with. That you stand firm in your beliefs I can respect even if I do not agree with. I am not a victim or I would roll over and parrot your thoughts because I would have been too weak a person to have my own......My body fails me,. does not make me a weak person. Live the life I have, and see if you come out unchanged as a person.

We're the same then :)  I say what's on my mind.  I apologize if I've misinterpreted you.  I wasn't directing anything in this thread (until recently) at you.  But you seemed to want to take anything said and make it about you.  Hence my victim comment.  

BTW, i'm happy to see someone disliked me calling myself an awful person :)

the internet typed word creates misunderstandings all the time. no worries

@zdog that you for finally taking in all the information being presented here.  I do have a counter point on SchH and Tr level tracking, a lot of clubs near me teach tracking like obedience and not as a problem for the dog to solve mentally. I'm sure there are people whom are not training this way at the SchH and Tr level, but from what I have seen these "memorization tracking" dogs don't have anywhere near the skills needed to do an FH, RH, TDX or VST which requires independent thinking on the dogs parts.  The HGH and C course AKC herding requires independent thinking too.

I keep getting told at training that tracking is obedience work and I just really cannot think that lol I thought i was being teased first time trainer told me tracking is pure obedience. I think much of the natural thinking is not encouraged in the dog in much of the sch training. I always encouraged the thinking and problem solving. 

I keep getting told at training that tracking is obedience work and I just really cannot think that lol I thought i was being teased first time trainer told me tracking is pure obedience. I think much of the natural thinking is not encouraged in the dog in much of the sch training. I always encouraged the thinking and problem solving. 

Momo......I wanted to go to that trial.....we haven't had one of those close to my area....and I've yet to see one....(sigh). That was part of the reason I built all of the agility equipment you see in Ava's video....so I could train for an IPO-R title with Cisco and Ava.

IMO...a dog that is trained for practical application trailing will probably never do as well (high scores) in sport application tracking. Here are a few of the reasons; many times a trailing dog will be within the scent pool of the track but not right on it, or they may airscent  to some degree if they've lost the track. Trailing dogs are not penalized for this...they are trained to get the job done as efficiently as possible. 
 
I disagree, most IPO3 or FH tracking dogs can certainly go on an be wonderful practical application trailing dogs if they have the drive and temperament. The IPO and FH training method is used as a base for training a trailing dog.

IMHO...there should be no difference in level of drive for protection or tracking. Both require high drive to be successful. But, there are differences in the amount of time the protection phase requires the dog to be in drive and the level of physical exertion is explosive vs.endured.

I've never seen a herding dog work or been to an AKC event so I can't comment on those statements....