30# of Bones !,,and a beef heart,, - Page 7

Agree Paul;  and I TRY to set up my training for success;  which to me includes my training with correct timing to get the message to my dog without having to repeat myself over and over again, whether it be a correction OR something new.  Temperament issues should be setup for success, the scenario then the plan to make the correction right then and there without any confusion or a mixed message to the dog.  A plan in place, however, for me it usually means I have to rely on the E-collar but usually NOT for growly nasty problems.  My young boy just graduated to a pinch collar we will see how that works for him. 

I hope for great success with Prince, and to all posters thank you for sharing your knowledge with these board members, I know everyone can learn from your excellent posts.  Nan

Nan, I agree it has been a good thread,,

Paul said,," If you are not willing, ready and able to train and correct any behavior put the dog up. It is safer for you and the dog and can save a lot of bad training issues next week."
 
The above is so true,,Many times I want to address something specifically when an opportunity arises, but I really don't have the time to deal with it should things go south,,,,So, I have to let the opportunity pass by until I have more time,,,,On one occasion I decided to have a create lesson with Prince and his aggression when I put him away him,,,I was getting ready to leave for work,,,,,By the time it was all said and done I was full of dog hair sweaty, and LATE,,lol,,,I learned a lesson that day,,,
 

i have done that also Ruger then looked back and realized I had just created yet another problem for myself along with the one I was trying to solve.  Realized through the years that  you have to set the time aside for a specific training lesson and be timely and thorough to get the problem solved.  And until you have worked through these lessons (that is you and the dog) no need to add anything new to the scenario;  except praise and play if the problem has been solved.  Then PUT THE DOG AWAY...  That is my theory anyway, end on a good note...  Happy Holidays,  Nan

hexe....grow up...everyone else stated that Price is spoiled, Deanna agreed that he is "well taken care of"...and u pick my post to blow up....
if Dozer did not let me touch his bowl?...that was not an option, if i had to use a baseball bat to get it I would have, if he would have growled again he would have skipped a meal,  no dog was going to dictate on what i can or cannot do...
It is not my fault that you misunderstood my post and thought that it was belittling...my point was that we keep recommending what to do to Prince....everyone is too nice to say, hey D maybe its you, maybe you need training and than this hard dog will fall into place...but no you decided to jump all over me....
anyways, pointless debate...the results speak for themselves...thats all.

all do respect Lady, but most if not all of those involved in giving advice here have said it is my handling that has created , caused  or added to the issues I have with Prince. My responsibility in all of this has been very well established.             
How we think we would handle something can be much different when you actually are dealing with it in that moment. 
At the end of the day hitting Prince with a baseball bat would be tons easier then what I am trying to do , but what kind of dog would  be left at the end of the day...

 

Great so we are all in agreement. Happy thanksgiving!

I agree that the growling for the bone is not a good thing-- your instincts were right on that one! It shows a lack of respect for you as alpha and also a sign of insecurity in the dog-- I've always found that the best way to remove that from our family's pups (we've had dachshunds, German Shepherds, Rotties, and I now have a Belgian Malinois), was to first demand/earn the respect. I remember the first time one of dachshunds growled at the neighbor's 2 year old boy because he stuck his hand in her food bowl. I immediately grabbed her and rolled her over, making her stay that way until she calmed down. I very rarely get angry, and I think my tone of voice told her everything she needed to know. She never exhibited that behavior around me again, and I didn't even have to use any kind of big show of force (I stay away from that stuff), just a simple side flip and a stern telling off.  

Part II, respect demanded-- accomplished.

Lol, yes, that was Part II, not Part I. Part One I think begins with earning that respect from your dog, and that comes with time and work. Being a good alpha means so many things. It means that you understand that things like exercise are crucial for a large breed. Before I start working on a new set of rules, I like to make sure that the dog is worn out first. The dog gains respect for you when you work them and you get a healthy bond in return. Yes, this means they need to RUN-- big dogs just don't get enough out of a walk. Wear them out, water them, and then approach the new rules while the dog is in a calm state of mind. You also have to be calm, firm, and consistent-- if you feel fearful, your dominant dog will pick up on that fast and leap in to take away the leadership from you. When my Mal first started to exhibit signs of aggression (she was mega skittish and started getting aggressive to compensate), I found that I couldn't simply ignore her behavior (she snapped at my neighbor). I addressed the problem right there by immediately putting her on the ground (so she was lower then us), and then stepping on her leash to keep her from raising up or running away. She fought it like crazy at first, but when it became clear that I wasn't going to let her win (A), and that nothing bad was happening to her (B-- we were just talking for Pete's sake), she finally quit.

The problem wasn't solved though-- I knew we had to revisit that whole meeting again and accomplish it without the crazy panic/aggression. I wanted nothing to do with aggression because she is a big, powerful dog, and I would never forgive myself if she caused someone else harm because I failed to get her under control. So, I exercised her the next day (took her for a 3-4 mile run), and then had them meet again. She fought it again, but since she was already worn out, the fight didn't last nearly as long, and she got into that calm state much faster. We kept doing this until she quit the behavior all together, although I still step in and make quick corrections if I see any signs. Remember too that although getting through this may feel like a fight, your dog doesn't want to be in that fighting state of mind either-- its easier to be a follower then a leader, so if you provide great leadership and take back control of your relationship with your dog, you'll see an ease to the happiness from them that comes from knowing they have an alpha that they love and respect.

Next thing to address was the insecurity (here I'm talking specifically about food-- we had to cover it in other areas too). Dogs fight for food because they feel they need to possess it or someone else is going to take it. It also helps establish them as leader if they win that fight, guaranteeing them more food in the future. In a wild pack, that fight might be necessary, but in our pack at home that doesn't fly. Everyone respects everyone else's food bowl and everyone gets their own treats and leaves others' alone. Nobody gets something that someone else doesn't, and we the humans enforce the rules, not the dogs. This made it so that when I went and house sat for a good friend of mine (who has 3 retired K-9's), that I was able to conduct dinner time with order and ease! Everybody knew where their bowl was-- I just had to show my pup Val which bowl was hers and ta-dah! New environment, new dogs, but no squabbles because both my friend and I use the same system. Boo ya! Side note-- whenever I'm helping watch someone else's pack, I always feed my dog last, not because I don't love her the most (because trust me, I do!), but because I know she trusts that I will ALWAYS feed her, so she has no reason to get snippy. Her attitude and trust settles the other dogs down, and her patience is always rewarded. She doesn't worry about getting fed, because she's never had a reason to, regardless of where we go.

Part III, insecurities-- diminished.

So, I'm not quite sure how to help you with a dog that already has aggression issues-- I've always tried to step in as early as possible and nip it in the butt before it gets to be a serious problem. My only advice would be to work on consistency-- feeding should be done at regular times under control (I make Val lie down a respectful distance away and watch me pour food. She doesn't get to eat until I tell her its ok. That's not me being mean, its just asking for some respect. I don't want her jumping all over me and making me spill her food when I'm trying to feed her... that boundary makes it so meal time is a fun time for both of us :) ). I then made sure to break her of any food craziness by always grabbing her paws, tail, and ears playfully while she ate-- she'll squeak with excitement while she munches, but she eventually does what I need her to, which is completely stop the eating activity to give me some affection in return. I don't do this all the time (that would drive the poor gal nuts!), but I do it just enough to make sure that if another kid ever comes between my dog and her food that I won't have anything to worry about. You can work up to this level by first controlling when they get to eat, then work on calling them off the food, then on touching them while they eat and by taking their food and giving it back. By feeding them at consistent times and keeping consistent rules, you can establish a very healthy pattern. Also, if you raise the food off the floor, I've heard that helps because it removes a dog's ability to stand over it = they can't physically dominate it by hunching over it like they can when its on the ground.

I know you were asking about a bone, not regular food, but if you can establish a healthy amount of respect with the normal eating routine, then treats should come much easier. Also, by asking your pup to perform tricks before receiving a treat (something that requires a physical touch, like shake, so that touching and food is associated as OK), then I think that'll help too. If you've got "drop it" for fetch working for you, then try making them drop the ball to get a treat. Build on that until your dog can drop a treat when asked to. When you physically put yourself between the animal and food, remember that you're offering a challenge, and that challenge might be met with aggression, so a simple drop it command first might be a good start. Being in control of the food routine is soooo important, and gaining the upper hand in this area will probably make others start to go smoother.

Best of luck! Hope some of this makes sense/applies... I don't know you or the dog personally, so I can only suggest what has worked for me in the past. German Shepherds are awesome, and you're awesome for working with your dog and seeking out the best for both of you!  :)  

 

No weight bearing bones.  My dogs are never allowed to growl at me for any reason. I feed raw and raw bones. I do not harrass my dogs when they are eating but I do and can take away any food item if needed.

 

Ok. I guess I'm going to stick my nose in yet again here. First, I am in no way going to discuss Prince himself or any conversations between myself and Deanna. That is for her to disclose at her discretion, it's her dog. To do otherwise would be unprofessional and inappropriate.

I would, however, like to make a few key points.

First, and I have said this before, making judgments and assumptions on a dog you have never seen, and dispensing advice, particularly regarding aggression, is foolhardy at best and dangerous at its worst. No experienced trainer worth their salt would do this based on nothing more than a pet owner's description of what they think is happening.

Second, I understand most of you are working dog folk. What you would tolerate in a dog, and what you would do to resolve a respect issue, is very different from what a companion owner can and will do. I say this with over 13 years of experience in working with pet owners- many of them with dogs that are too much for them and not an ideal match by any means. I love owning strong dogs, because I can handle them. I have gone toe to toe with dogs that would make Prince look like a therapy dog and come out on top. There is one thing, however, I cannot do: turn every owner into me.

Now, I bet I know what some of you are thinking. "Well, that person shouldn't own that dog, then." You may be right, but that's water under the bridge, isn't it? What are the options for an aggressive dog?

-Rehome it. With whom, exactly? Do you know how hard it is to find people willing and truly capable of taking on someone else's adult problem dog?
-Relinquish it to a no-kill shelter/rescue. One of two things will happen here. If the people who run it are bleeding hearts and clueless, they'll assume the dog is "abused" and "misunderstood" and it will be rehomed, where it will hurt someone. If they are smart, the dog will be labeled "do not adopt" and live its life slowly going insane staring at the four walls of a kennel.
-Euthanize it.

None of them are pretty options. So you can imagine, as a trainer, the position this puts you in. The match is not perfect but the options are bleak. Now, if I have an owner who is dedicated, will to take precautions, put the time in, reshape what behaviors they can and give the dog a happy life under less than ideal circumstances, that's the option I'm going with.

Which leads me to my third point. Your game plan with a 9 month old punk adolescent is not the game plan you have with an experienced 4-5 year old dog. If I asked an owner to do what I would do, they will quite likely get hurt. Hell, sometimes I'll get hurt, but that's my choice. I'm not saying to let unacceptable behaviors go. You reshape as many things as you can into a positive, and if and when the dog crosses the line, you have no choice but bring the hammer down, so to speak. However, not every dog recovers the same way. Some dogs bounce back easily from a reprimand of that level, ashamed and concerned but ready to make the owner happy. Some dogs it festers, they stay tense and resentful long after the incident. You have to know what works for the dog, and teach them how to come out of that zone- and it can't be done with more conflict at that point.

Finally- you have my number, lady!