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by Hired Dog on 06 January 2014 - 12:01
Stefan, you are correct in your assessment of those dogs and the people who can handle them, my first Malinois to work in the USA was like that, loved the dog and his aggression, but, would never want another one like him again, ever.
The rest of this thread has been turned into a "my dick is bigger then yours" posting, and it started out really well. In the end, KNPV dogs will still be imported and worked and admired by those who enjoy that activity.
The rest of this thread has been turned into a "my dick is bigger then yours" posting, and it started out really well. In the end, KNPV dogs will still be imported and worked and admired by those who enjoy that activity.
by Hired Dog on 06 January 2014 - 12:01
Paul, I understand where you are coming from, believe me, I do, I was just like this 30 years a go, the more aggressive and the harder the dog was, the more I liked it, however, there is a limit to that too. Having to worry on a daily basis about getting eaten by your own dog is NOT fun, especially when said dog lives in the house with you and other family members.
Having a dog whose entire life is based on who he will hospitalize next is not fun, especially when you are the one who is denying him his fun.
Oh, in case anyone is curious, that dog was Maastrich's Simeon, he is in PDB, he was the first Malinois to work as a police dog in the USA back in the early 80's and he was without a doubt the most aggressive and hardest dog I have ever seen.
Having a dog whose entire life is based on who he will hospitalize next is not fun, especially when you are the one who is denying him his fun.
Oh, in case anyone is curious, that dog was Maastrich's Simeon, he is in PDB, he was the first Malinois to work as a police dog in the USA back in the early 80's and he was without a doubt the most aggressive and hardest dog I have ever seen.
by Paul Garrison on 06 January 2014 - 12:01
Hired, I have had two that were what I wanted 1 was a import from Hungary that tried to eat his LE handler several times. It took me 13 months until he did not growl at me with a verbal correction, wow I miss that dog. I got a picture of this dog and I 1 year after his death and it brought tears to my eyes. Oh how I loved this dog.
Then 2nd dog Pirry vom Elfenschloss that I bought from Hubert Feuerestarke. Wow what a dog, he even bit my ex-wife. What is better then that? He had presents and hardness to die for and he hit like a train.
I do not have dogs in my house and no desire for anyone to pet my personal dog and just love the raw aggression.
Never bred either dog and I am very sorry I did not.
Then 2nd dog Pirry vom Elfenschloss that I bought from Hubert Feuerestarke. Wow what a dog, he even bit my ex-wife. What is better then that? He had presents and hardness to die for and he hit like a train.
I do not have dogs in my house and no desire for anyone to pet my personal dog and just love the raw aggression.
Never bred either dog and I am very sorry I did not.
by susie on 06 January 2014 - 13:01
Sorry, deleted after thinking about it...
by johan77 on 06 January 2014 - 13:01
Stefan, isn´t also the lack of training for that test also why many dogs fail and not only they lack the genetics, they are so used to target only a sleeve or suit in a certain routine that doing something different and also who is against the rules if we talk about biting a passive person in such a situation are not what many dog will do without preperation.
Anyway, KNPV-dogs or any sport/trial isn´t much about which dog have the most aggression with a short fuse, a prounounced prey and fightingdrive seems more what is more typical for KNPV. A mediocre GSD will not do well in KNPV or in other sports either, if doing well means show a impressive work and not only about the points. I have seen KNPV dutchies, and recently a young GSDs who have some KNPV/ringsport dogs behind them doing an impressive work in IPO or other sports and I don´t doubt they could do KNPV if the owner had the opportunity, I mean to say if a certain IPO-dog could do KNPV or not I guess it depends what dogs we are talking about. But I must say worrying about structure is the least we need to focus on in GSDs, regardless if you do KNPV or other sport a "beatifull" structure isn´t worth much if it goes against what is a usefull structure that holds over time, there I guess KNPV-breeders and others who are 100% serious about the dogs workingability are doing a good job.
Anyway, KNPV-dogs or any sport/trial isn´t much about which dog have the most aggression with a short fuse, a prounounced prey and fightingdrive seems more what is more typical for KNPV. A mediocre GSD will not do well in KNPV or in other sports either, if doing well means show a impressive work and not only about the points. I have seen KNPV dutchies, and recently a young GSDs who have some KNPV/ringsport dogs behind them doing an impressive work in IPO or other sports and I don´t doubt they could do KNPV if the owner had the opportunity, I mean to say if a certain IPO-dog could do KNPV or not I guess it depends what dogs we are talking about. But I must say worrying about structure is the least we need to focus on in GSDs, regardless if you do KNPV or other sport a "beatifull" structure isn´t worth much if it goes against what is a usefull structure that holds over time, there I guess KNPV-breeders and others who are 100% serious about the dogs workingability are doing a good job.
by GSDPACK on 06 January 2014 - 14:01
Yap, Yap.. search with "naked" decoy in a cage is an excellent way to see if the dog will engage. We still used full body suit to "reward" the dog that tried to eat the friggin cage. Only 2 dogs out of 7 really did a great job. I was happy one of mine was a success. The female I mentioned in previous post was another one, (different day) and one mali and one dutchie did really well too. the rest had no desire to engage on stationary, target lacking decoy. Shows and tells a lot about a dog. The building was huge, decoy was stationary, no equipment, and none of the decoys were shown to the dog (as prey) targets prior to search. Pretty much announcement (nice hint for the dog of what is expected), release, search of few rooms, cage... and final reward was a second decoy in a suit. It was a great training day. We used muzzle also in these scenarios. It is one of those training things a lot of people wont do cause many times it kinda shaves points off in any sport.
I miss those days.. :o(
I miss those days.. :o(
by vk4gsd on 06 January 2014 - 20:01
this thread has really gone thru the highs and lows, i think some of the posters that should know better are high as well;
WTF - naked decoys in cages LMAO, given the complete lack of interest by the american public with the WUSV i think they should have added a naked celebrity in a cage being attacked by dogs to get some public interest, oh wait can't use male celebs cos the dog will kick into prey seeing the baby bird in the bird nest and we don't wanna see no sporty prey dogs cos we are talkin real dogs baby, bwahaha - that is some dumb shit coming from some smart people, proves absolutely nothing about dogs but does prove that even smart people can say dumb shit.
and what' all this dumb shit about dogs so good cos they so bad that they attack their own handler....really???
i am sure that is what he old shepherds in germany selected for in their dogs so you know out there alone isolated for months in the german mountains, they can always be worried about their own dog leaving the sheep and attacking their master, yep, yessirreeebob.
tell me you guys just get back from Colorado or you getting high on your own supply???
WTF - naked decoys in cages LMAO, given the complete lack of interest by the american public with the WUSV i think they should have added a naked celebrity in a cage being attacked by dogs to get some public interest, oh wait can't use male celebs cos the dog will kick into prey seeing the baby bird in the bird nest and we don't wanna see no sporty prey dogs cos we are talkin real dogs baby, bwahaha - that is some dumb shit coming from some smart people, proves absolutely nothing about dogs but does prove that even smart people can say dumb shit.
and what' all this dumb shit about dogs so good cos they so bad that they attack their own handler....really???
i am sure that is what he old shepherds in germany selected for in their dogs so you know out there alone isolated for months in the german mountains, they can always be worried about their own dog leaving the sheep and attacking their master, yep, yessirreeebob.
tell me you guys just get back from Colorado or you getting high on your own supply???
by joanro on 06 January 2014 - 20:01
What a dork......
by aarowsmith on 06 January 2014 - 21:01
As a person new to working dogs I appreciate it when knowledgeable people share their insights and advice. I hope we don't ruin that.
War Eagle.
by GSDPACK on 06 January 2014 - 21:01
I am really laughing my ass off right now... yah, gonna go back to the cave I came from..
still laughing.. that was awesome
still laughing.. that was awesome
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