Peta in hot water! - Page 6

OK Your all correct, Peta Sucks and Torture is good, and certainly spook I support Terrorism Oh and I forgot, I manage a shelter work my ass off 15 plus hours a day because of irresponsible people but YES OF COURSE I MUST BE PART OF PROBLEM Morgan. Het, Never said I "support" them. said I have a broad enough mind to "recognize" good things they have done such as STOP slaughter house Torture. PJD, Already have, reread and then say that again, It will prove you can't read. Spook, You can dish it but dont like it much when it's thrown back at you. Let me rent you a backhoe that shovel your using is taking too long. DR, You have sifted through the mud, and understood what I was saying, Thank You for that. Shelly, I agree with you 100%, (I know you did not address me directly but felt it was ok to agree with you) What is weird YOU GUYS... Is that I do NOT Disagree with you, That this is a very bad thing that happened, I DO NOT Support Peta, but I do have enough sense to recognize that "SOME" of the work they have done, ABSOLUTELY HAS RESULTED IN POSATIVE CHANGES FOR ANIMALS, to deny that in my opinion only shows your PIG HEADED, HARD NOSED, BIAS STANCE. So sorry that I have the ability to recognize and "acknowledge" accomplishments, and failures. I do believe Peta is overboard with many of the issues they get involved with. I do believe the "TWO" individuals being charged in this case "MAY" have been out of line, However according to the reports, The shelters handed them over for euthanasia rather than using the gun or gas chamber. then in another report the shelter claims "we had no idea" Who knows what happened, Time will tell, Ever heard the term Innoscent until proven guilty ???? But keep it clear you guys, the entire organization was not there, it was "TWO" people. This will likely be the last time I post regarding this issue, Some of you have sifted through the mud and CLEARLY SEE THAT I AM NOT DEFENDING PETA, While others see what they want or read partial posts and READ INTO IT WHAT THEY WANT, rather than seeing it for what it is. Recognition goes BOTH ways. ? Is will you now recognize what has REALLY been said here or will you continue to read into what has been said with your own agenda's clouding your mind.

Desert Rangers, Absolutely 100% Correct !! :-)

EchoMuddles, you're a trip. Everybody else is wrong.

You dont' get it spook, I don't think anyones opinion is wrong !!!!! better to be a trip than many other descriptions I could think of LOL :-)

Echo- I have been called a lot worse... OFTEN in my life! Don't worry about it. The only opinions that count are the ones of people you seriously respect. You have my word on it :-D LOL Shelley

Do Right, which part of the Philippines were you in? I have LIVED there for my entire childhood. Here's something for you: http://www.paws.org.ph/ My whole life I've known people who taught me about dogs--how to touch them, how to approach them, so that I've never had trouble even after I was exposed to the 'modern' style of training. "the "mind set" in the Phillipines seems to be different than the mind set in the U.S. concerning dogs." In the US they're considered 'furbabies', I believe. The lifestyles differ to the extent that what is 'care' in the Philippines is not 'care' in the US--as it would go with the people. But it is bs to say that they're not considered at least a friend in the Philippines, or else most of what I have seen my life was a lie? I came from the lower-class families. My grandfather died with a dog at his feet. I've never spoken up when it's China getting bashed and so on because I've never been there, but this is my home we're talking about. A bigger problem I've seen are purebred dogs being used as a status symbol. There are a handful of provinces that traditionally eat dog, but it is illegal for the rest of the country. "Eating dog" is usually done by drunkards out on the streets. The scene you've seen, with the cans around their mouths and the dogs tied behind their backs, was frowned upon, shown in documentaries, and efforts made to stop them (although you can only go so far in such a country). It is the exception, not the norm. The norm? The family dog who goes out, roams around, then comes back to eat and lick the children's feet. While we're at it, feel free to check www.dog-tracker.com and talk to people. We're in a public message board, and I'd hate for crap misinformation to spread around.

"I am positive that a homeless dog in the Phillipines doesn't get taken to a shelter." I'd like to add--you are right, one man's hell is another man's home. A homeless dog there, for the most part, is a dog that is free to roam, find food, mate, fight, and so on. A homeless dog in the US is confined in a small cage for sometimes months on end with no attention, or maybe attention that's sporadically given, and maybe they get adopted to a nice family, maybe a not so nice family, or maybe they get killed. Different cultures. It does not mean one is better than the other, but let's not judge countries based on this. Both problems are based on ignorance, not for a lack of love for dogs. Again, sorry for jumping on you like this, but I would rather defend my home when misconceptions like this flare up.

I appreciate you standing up for your country. You should. I wish more in America would do the same. Having said that, I make the following comments. First, to answer your question, I was in Manilla. Second, a sentence from your comments pretty much sums it up as far as I am concerned: "although you can only go so far in such a country". Also, I find it hard to believe that there are venders in the Phillipine market place that make a living selling live, mutilated dogs to "Drunkards". And, I might ad, to my way of thinking (and most dog lovers everywhere), it is better that dogs are living in kennels in shelters or backyards, than running the streets, mating, fighting, scrounging for food, etc. Sure, the dog is happier I guess running the streets, but it is not good for society and the dog. If it is, I have to adjust my whole mindset about humane societies and the like. I would think that if there is a market for dog meat by all of the drunkards and such, in your country, that the dogs running around there had better be real good at running. I understand that there are people in the Phillipines that care for their pets. There are some in China also. But let's face it. It is a small portion of the population. I can't tell you about someplace that you have lived all of your life, since I was only there many years ago for three months, however you are doing the same thing about my country. It is the same old story, "Just because someone is from Iran doesn't make them a terrorist". No it doesn't. Some of my best and closest friends are Muslims from Palestine. But I do know from talking with them on a daily basis, that if all out total war between muslim terrorists and "us" occurs, they will side with their "own kind". They are not terrorists but when pushed into a corner, they will make that decision. It is the same with the situation we are talking about. You will side with your country and people, even if it means contorting your thinking wildly. I on the other hand, will agree with you if you give me a convincing argument concerning this situation. So far, you have not. Here in the U.S., we eat cows, deer, chicken, etc., but we have laws about how that is accomplished. I guess the end result is the same, but we are trying to find a realistic median. In the Phillipines it is sick and gross to allow that type of thing to occur in even ONE province. How many of your acquantices have went to these markets and protested or bought a dog or two from these venders, to save what you can? I'm betting none. If you have been reading on this web site for a while, you know that I have three imported GSD's that I purchased for thousands of dollars and I have five dogs that I purchased from local shelters for about 35 or 45 dollars. I would take them all if I could, as many on this site would. I could name several here that have taken many from shelters and/or work at shelters to better the life of those "dogs in cages". Honestly, how many have you saved from the shelters (oh, I forgot, there aren't any), okay, from the venders? That's what I thought. None. Love your country by all means, I love mine. But just as I will admit the many problems with the U.S. (it is still the best country in the world, bar none), in this particular area, we are far, far more "advanced and humane".

Let's make this a good, clean discussion while we're at it, hmmmk? I don't disagree with you that the Philippines is in fact a third world country. So there are no spare resources to 'keep dogs in kennels', or give kids vaccinations. The level of "care" that you get in the US, naturally, is superior to that in the Philippines. That said, it doesn't mean that the Filipinos are inherently cruel to their dogs nor that the country has lack of love for dogs as someone reading your posts would assume. Have you listened to the man beat someone up for running over his dog? To the family who cries over a two month old puppy lost to parvovirus? There is a lack of resources--not a lack of love. This is what I'm arguing. "Advanced and humane"--yes, we need education, movements going on with that. In a poor country that's already billions of dollars in debt, what else can you expect? Again, doesn't mean people don't love their dogs? I've never encountered a dog vendor in my life in Manila. I believe they're in the southern provinces. I've picked up mangy, stray dogs before, nurtured them to health, and gave them to good families. But what does that have to do with anything? Why twist the argument to what is humane and *right* for a US person? What does this have to do with the fact that people love their dogs? I gave you a link to a shelter in Manila that also advocates animal welfare. I am not contorting my thinking wildly. What I do understand is we're arguing from different ends of the spectrum, different upbringing, different societies, different comforts in life. You see things the media sees, or what you see when you were there for three months in the 70s, and I'm seeing things I've seen and known my whole life. I know the care can be better, I know they need a lot of work in preventing animal cruelty, but it is imperative that you realize what I'm getting at here--DO NOT judge a country by a few. Also, let's debate this without getting into personal insults. As someone who was alive in the 70s, I'm sure you'll understand. ;)

PS. While we're at it, it'll be nice if you can read what I write instead of attempting to distort what I'm saying or skimming through my post to try and get a few details you can poke at. That's what makes a good debate. Young and stupid as I am, I'm fully aware of my country's faults. We should help each other instead of barking about what's wrong. For a start, as I'm doing, I'm focusing on what's good. It'll be nice if you can do the same.