breed worthiness? - Page 10

Before this thread disapears into cyberspace, I thought it interesting to comment on some of the comments. The original post was "breed worthiness" concerning s/l.

What I find so interesting is there is input frrom one of the very top trainers/competitors in the U.S. and he did it with s/l. A national level certified helper who I would guess has worked/evaluated more s/l than the average enthusiast will ever see, a trainer/enthusiast in Germany whose dog of choice is the s/l, a breeder of AKC champions and these are just the ones I can identify as having more than the average experience with s/l.

The concensus frrom these varied back grounds seemed to me to be "the pudding is in the proofing" (did I say that right:). Looking for ways to dumb down what many consider to be an already dumbed down process may very well result in some positive results, it can in no way result in a breed meeting the original intent of the GSD.

Well, Student, I don't know how many times you watched or handled a dog at a GSDCA TT or who the evaluator/s were, but I've seen as many failures as passes and some were Sch titled dogs. Sooooo maybe  you should try it yourself sometime before deciding it's not worth much.  I've seen GSD's that were gifted IPO titles too, does that mean they they are worthless too. No matter what it is, if the AKC or the GSDCA is involved, it's never worthwhile; even advanced OB titles are made to look like old ladies game. As far as I know none of you guys have ever Sch titled any dog and then trained it to advanced OB titles, herding titles, KKL1 and showed it to a V rating. Walk the walk.....

it has been almost 30 years since I paid attention to the TT. There were no failures in those days and the no failure rate was sanctioned by the man who headed the committee which oversaw the event. Are there any published accounts of current testing?. I can go to the 2 IPO magazines in the USA and see how the dog sport teams score. Any reports? 

blitz; by the way, I have walked the walk. Some of the first TTs and a UD at about the same time. but I do not think this is the venue to make a  list. I talk about my experiences but not my record. I talk about the GSD here, but not my own. I advocate for the SV system, the Ideal which it sets forth is a good way to designate breed worthiness.

My comment is directed at Richard Medlen. I too, would like to express my concern regarding your health issues, & congratulate you on your recovery & return to dog sports. Your story gives me hope. I was just beginning to learn Schutzhund & starting with my dogs when my health seemed to simply collapse, first with pulmonary problems, then a series of orthopedic & ligament issues that required several surgeries, then cancer. I have had to simply give up for a while & focus on my own health. 

Your story gives me hope that I might someday be able to return to dog sports in some form.

So many others on this board have encouraged me, & several others have shared their stories of triumphing over similar circumstances, I thank you all. 

jackie harris

Read all about it.

http://gsdca.org/events/temperament-testing

I don't know how you saw a GSDCA temperament test in the 70's, but if you did it was not the same one they use today. Each handler is given the score sheet after the dog has completed the test. A failure in one exercise means a failed test period. The test is either pass or fail. There is no minimum score required like AKC OB and no prizes for the high score. The dog has to pass every exercise. Click on the link I listed above in another message; on the left side is the passing criteria, on the right the failing. I don't know if the results are available on line but the club retains a record of each dog that passed. If there is a particular dog one wants to verify, it's available. 

I don't know how looking at the IPO scores on the net identify the gifted scores. One of the most blatant violations I've seen of a judge gifting the protection score was a well known east coast handler receiving a passing score on a dog that left the ring and had to be hauled back in by his collar. He was listed on our club website as having earned his Sch3.

I don't make it a practice to belittle anyone's efforts with their dogs.  I am happy for anyone who partners with their dog in any venue. I could come here message after message and dump on the German dogs I have personally seen that failed in one venue or another and I have seen plenty of them since 1969. I feel badly for their owners and breeders.  Instead of delighting in their failures becasue they may not be my dog of choice,  I try to find ways to encourage them to not quit or to move on to something the dog can achieve.

I have no reason to doubt your statement that you have had some of the first  GSD TT's and UD's. I'm not asking for a list of your dogs and your accomplishments. I just wish I could start a thread here about showlines without the meanspritied remarks about how useless they are. Showline people love their dogs too you know. I have NEVER read a thread here where showline people trash workinglines.  Never.....

"I don't make it a practice to belittle anyone's efforts with their dogs.  I am happy for anyone who partners with their dog in any venue. I could come here message after message and dump on the German dogs I have personally seen that failed in one venue or another and I have seen plenty of them since 1969. I feel badly for their owners and breeders.  Instead of delighting in their failures becasue they may not be my dog of choice,  I try to find ways to encourage them to not quit or to move on to something the dog can achieve."

That´s it in a nutshell - it´s important to do something with the dog, no matter, what. If the dog is not suitable for one sport, try another. And if it´s not suitable for anything, still love your dog, but on the other hand be aware, that the German Shepherd breed in itself has to be suitable for almost any kind of dogsport ( I´m not talking about winners, I´m talking about "normal" participants ).

So you need to train, otherwise you won´t know, and in case your dog failed, so what? Just don´t breed...

Susie, one of the best GSD owners I've met since I moved here to FL could not get her GSD to bite. She tried and tried and the dog just didn't have it in her.  Rather than giving up on her, she decided to enroll her in a dock diving class. That was her element, that dog did great. I haven't taked to her for a while, last I heard that darned GSD was setting all sorts of records competing against dogs like Labs and goldens. She never intended to breed her, the dog had inhalation allergies.

On the opposite side of that coin is another dog owned by a friend who used to show the same breed I had originally. Before I even owned a GSD I ran into her at a local Sch trial, she was trialing her GSD for her Sch3. I asked her how she got interested in Sch and she said she went to her first trial as a spectator. Watched the Sch class, said - hell MY dog can do that, I'm going to enter her at a trial. With very little Sch training that dog got her Sch 3 in 3 trials and went High in Trial at that show. 

Susie 

I have never met you but I have to say I like your attitude.  You seem like a real good person.  A well balanced person.