Sport Dog Guarding - Page 10

Thank you, Haz.

Joan :Body suit is not a toy when a dog has never had training with sleeve or body suit prior to biting a decoy wearing it . The suit was there to protect the decoy, not to cue the dog to bite. It all depends on the circumstance

 

 I agree 100%. Now show me who does that besides you me and ahandful of  other trainers in USA. The sleeve and body suite is a foundation of just about any sport PP LE dog these days. As I say I agree with you do not got off the deep end now. 

Susie: Hans" And to do civil defense work with one man routine is even more involved and can be done only be experienced trainers as with correct dog with tons of foundation before that type of a training is commenced. "
Susie:" I don´t think so, but that´s MY opinion and MY experience. A dog is no human, and a dog in defense doesn´t "train".

Well I have done it many times. If you wnant I can teach you. Nowhere have I said that dog is human, I said that "dogs  are not stupid" that is what I said.  And I am totally lost at your statement that "dog in defense does't not "train"". What does that mean?

 Are you saying that you can not train dog while  in defense drive?  Well in all fairness people have some interesting definitions and understanding of what defense is. Please let for clarity sake let me know what is your definition and understanding  of defense drive. 

   Susuie: Hans" Sleeve or body suite is a toy.  To do civil prey work is little more involved and difficult. " Susie: Never thought I´d ever read these words written from you"

 Suzie live and learn. It is amazing how much you assume ( erroneously I must add) about me, my training and my dogs,...considering that you have never seen me nor my training  nor the dogs I trained you ace commenting awfully allot on it.  FYI  I always emphasize foundation work. BTW  can you tell me where I said in my 44 years of training that foundation is not important. I give you $100 no $1000 if you can point it out to me. :) 

Susie: Simple reality: Sleeve, bite suits and hidden sleeves are triggers for the dog ( even if not visible, and that´s difficult, they smell them, and they know about the body language of helpers ). It´s almost impossible to train "real life" scenarios.

I am gald you said "almost"  that is since  they ( the sleeves and other equipment ) do not need to be triggers and it is actually quite possible to train for real life scenarios real dogs who have no problem to bite for real. It is quite simple but most trainers can not picture it. It is a lost art to many. I got trainers, cops and others asking me with incredulity :" How do you teach the dog to bite without sleeve?"  But in principle it is quite trivial. I have posted on my forum 11 point AlpineK9 routine. There may be and are other ways I am sure. I call it so because that is how I train this particular subject. Civil prey and defense.  The point is to convince the dog that he is biting a man and NOT the sleeve. That is regardless if the sleeve is there or not. 

 Prager Hans

Your post: " Do you think that 2 free style cage fighters can train together, and fight each other in competition and, at the same time,  be the best friends? I do. "
My answer: " I don´t think so, but that´s MY opinion and MY experience. A dog is no human, and a dog in defense doesn´t "train".
Your question: " And I am totally lost at your statement that "dog in defense does't not "train"". What does that mean? "

So for clarification: I tried to say that you can´t compare humans, who are well aware of "training" with dogs in defense. Sure you are able " to train them", but a dog in defense ( without prey involved ) doesn´t believe in sports ethics of cage fighters during training.

You post: "BTW  can you tell me where I said in my 44 years of training that foundation is not important. I give you $100 no $1000 if you can point it out to me. :) "
I can´t remember saying this, so why do you ask? ( Besides that, I could need some money...)

" I have posted on my forum 11 point AlpineK9 routine. "
Sorry, really tried, but wasn´t able to find it - my fault.

Training dogs...the more dogs, the more training techniques.
Please don´t worry about me - I live, learned, and still learn.
And the most important part about dog training I learned: Every dog is unique, and you have to rethink every day about your training skills. So I think I´ll learn as long as I use to own German Shepherds.

Susie, I agree with you that dogs in defense/fight drive in real life battle ( or perceived by them to be real), are not cognizant of rules of sport. IPO, yes, after many hours and repetitions, they "get it" that ules must be obeyed. And because sport such as IPO is choreographed, most dogs will maintain a friendly demeanor with the helper.....my dog in the video on page 3, however, will most definitely NOT walk up and "shake hands" and be buddies with the decoy after the session. Being "friends" with his opponent is the farthest thing from his mind...