Sport Dog Guarding - Page 3

So, you are not left handed but you are catching the dog with the right arm, interesting...its like looking at you driving him backwards, but, as long as you are comfy. I have no idea if the dog is equipment concious or not, with you working him, its not easy to tell how he would be with someone else.

I agree, the nerve I would want to see is not there nor is the aggression, is that why you are selling him? I would still like to see someone else work this dog, other then you.

SO he's not equipment oriented with me but he would be with someone else? Makes no sense.

I would too.  I have to drive 2+ hours one way to get to a helper who is capable of working him. A training helper who can teach him, I don't know of one in the 4 hour radius around me. Maybe one by Racing/Chicago.   I think Indiana has some.  Otherwise it's still me calling the shots telling a helper what to do. 

There is still a bunch of info in the videos that the dog tells you that you are missing.

Of course it makes sense, you are working your own dog, again, I have no idea how he would be with anyone else and their style of doing it.  He does take the sleeve when you give it to him and runs away with it...some dogs, including mine wont. That can be because of training or because of the dog itself. As far as other stuff the dog is saying, I would rather hear you say it then anyone else, this is how a lot of the BS starts in here bz and I am not interested in participating in that game...make sense?

It's no different then when I work someone else's dog or they work mine.  The dog does what he is trained to do.  He's a sport dog, he's allowed to carry the sleeve until one of three things happen.  A, he is satisfied at which point he spits the sleeve and goes at the helper again, b, the helper comes after him at which point he spits the sleeve and goes at the helper, c, he is outed at which point he takes his guidance from the handler.

Remember, our dogs have to be able to work with control on them.  All dogs will look tougher with no control on them.  At the point where Paco was wrapping up my sons leg, one platz command has him laying down, while my son untangles.  Then he goes back to work when told.  One thing that everybody is missing is that because of my son's poor handling skills (he's only 7 he'll get better) Paco gets a helluva bang when he hits the end of the back tie when he's turned back on.  To a dog who is trained to be compliant to his handler, that's very confusing.  A very good example of "overpowering" a dog and why we should want to avoid that technique in training a dog. 

Thanks bczc.  I was missing all that you just explained above.  I'm glad your kids are out there with you, learning to handle dogs!

What about another option during training?  As my dog has gotten more mature, comfortable, and confident, and he is working in prey, when the helper slips him the sleeve, my dog will circle around and bring the sleeve back to the helper and obviously wants to initiate more "play" (for lack of a better word) with the helper.

I agree with your comment about control.  But the kind of control that I see with your dog and son, is that really taught or more a testament to the dog's clearheaded temperament?

Control is the most important aspect of training bz, they are sport dogs a few times a year, they are dogs you live with, ALL the time. 

Zenit, as bz mentioned, they are sport dogs, the sleeve is the reward and helpers love dogs who want to initiate play again with the sleeve, over and over. 

This is the only video I have that I can think of it,s 8 years old. Axel was still competing at the time it would make him 6. have fun with it for what it,s worth. I owned him from 8 weeks old. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQEWsyXqEBY

Thanks Hired Dog for your comment.  In my dog, I'm happy now to see him be a happy sport dog and bring the sleeve back to the helper.  The helper has tapped into the defense drives of my dog and I've seen my dog get serious, no sleeve, and, for sure, would have bitten the man hard if there had been no back tie.  It's intense to see when it's real to the dog.

For a lot of dogs, that does work well.  Paco doesn't balance well.  He is in defense or he is in prey.  If you watch his guarding after the out, that is him in prey drive which in him leads to bouncier guarding and worse barking. That's actually a sign of a very resiliant dog (often confused with good nerves).  You can push him into defense but the effect is not long lasting.  He reverts back to prey because the perceived threat is gone.  

I'll try and take another video tonight of him on the backtie by himself and then him working and carrying the sleeve back to the helper. 

Heads up, helperwork will be worse.  Had knee surgery on Fri (day after I took the last videos) and knee is not 100 % yet but good enough to show what we're going to show. 

The Control is the clearheadedness in the dog.  My son plays with him but doesn't do the work with him hardly at all.

Bob,

Not fair commenting about a dog whose being worked at a seminar.  There are things being done as the seminar giver figures out the dogs and sometimes they make the dog look bad.

i. e.  for those who watched the video, Bob's dog did not fall off or come off of the sleeve.  He was pulled off by someone (not Bob) who was handling the line.

Not fair to speculate why.

Koos is a tough helper and he can make a lot of dogs look bad if they haven't worked at his intensity level before.

Is this how he normally looked in training Bob?