"I'm Not looking for a showdog" - Page 5

AKVeronica wrote: " I shall have to respectfully disagree with those who believe that there are many good dogs in the pound or in rescues who can EASILY be found who are as good as what you can get from a dedicated breeder. I have not had that experience, and have not met anyone with that experience in person." Meet me, and I'll spend hours telling you about the excellent dogs I've adopted from the pound. One of them was a pure bred GSD most likely purchased from a breeder when he was a pup and dumped in his senior years. One was a cocker named Puddles for good reason. Owner was too lazy to house train him and ditched him. One is a mixed breed of who knows what - rottie, lab, Sibe, GSD. Maybe created by one of those dedicated breeders that go in for designer breeds and sell them for $2,000. Each one of my pound puppies was found EASILY and every single one of them lived (and still lives) a long and happy life with far fewer health problems than the pedigreed dogs we bought from breeders. GSD rescues are full of papered dogs from dedicated breeders. Many of the dogs are tattooed or chipped and their peds are easily found. And while most of those dogs are Specialty cripples relinquished by their disillusioned owners because the dogs have no hips and slouch along on their butts, many others are fine and well bred GSDs EASILY as good as what one can buy from a breeder. In fact, the only reason to buy from a breeder is if one wants to have a puppy and doesn't want to wait until a pregnant bitch shows up at the pound. Or wants to become a 'dedicated breeder'. For a pet quality dog or a sport dog, breed rescues are the perfect sources for pure bred dogs. If someone wants 'just a dog', send them to the local pound.

DRFNO, to imply you can find a high quality dog by simply going to rescue facility is ludicrous. You or someone else may have found a quality GSD in the pound, but it's a one in a million chance. Besides, all these breeders on this site do extensive follow up on their dogs. Just ask Echo. Yes, there are people who believe the myth you attempt to spread. My brother-in-law had a yellow lab come up to his door that he kept and raised. He even named it 'ole yeller'. He claimed it would defend him to the death and was the best dog he ever had. IT WAS A PIECE OF SHIT! But it was his piece of shit and he loved it. That doesn't mean he had a quality dog walk up to his door; it means he doesn't know any better. In his case as with yours, "Ingnorance is bliss." As far as accusing me of killing birds or being prejudice towards a particular race, it shows the weakness of you argument. By the way, the odds of finding an innocent man in prison are about the same as finding a quality GSD in the pound. I won't address the crate thing again, because you ran and hid on the last crate thread.

Spook as par for the course, it's always your side thats correct and no room for others thinking. I think what many of us are saying is... unless you want to breed, go to the Nationals or better, there is no need to buy from a reputable breeder, to supply your family with a companion dog. I think there are many who have healthy happy pets from the pound and even people who rescue dogs and make them into something usefull. Veronica your "Quality" dogs I have seen and they do seem inpressive at the bloodline level but other than that, I am for one not impressed whatsoever enough to purchase a unproven pup for $1500.00. I see you going out and buying the "it" lines and breeding them to the "it" studs for now and not really knowing what you are shooting for or know what to expect in your litters. I'll take my chances at the pound thanks, unless I feel the need to breed. What % do we all guess buyers are purchasing pups to breed anyway? I would have to say that more than 1/2 go to pet homes wether the dogs are show or trial quality anyway. There just aren't that many people out there who show or do dogsport to justify all these breeders who swear their pups go to working homes "ONLY". I'm not buying it. I just can't. I'm not knocking showing or dog sport just stating my opinion, that at least 80% of dogs are made into pets not competition dogs. You may not be able to take a dog from the pound and make him a seiger or get a Sch3 on him but I havn't seen many that couldn't excel in OB or agility, SAR, or a Special needs dog of some sort. The selection at the pound or shelters are so diverse you can find at least one who can do a job of some sort and many who are stable enough to make a lifelong companion. Like I said in another post, I have had pound puppies and well bred dogs. They all seem easy enough to train regardless of breeding. Maybe I am just lucky or can see a good dog when it is in front of me? If it's a one in a million shot, I have super luck and have beat those odds more than once because I have not seen a million pound dogs or anything close to that in my lifetime. Considering I am not the only one who finds shelter dogs and can make use of them in some way, I doubt we are all talking out our asses. I'm also wondering if the market is so flooded, breeders are feeling threatened by the bargain dogs out there? Why else must they discredit homeless, paperless animals? Most people wouldn't write a post so long about how great their dogs are compaired to pound dogs. Not someone secure in their kennel or breedings anyway. Quoting anything from Leerburgs site is just sad, his dogs and their decendents are probably the biggest contributers to GSD pound bound animals. All that talk about 350+ litters on the ground. Talk about Mass production! Yes, lets not run to the pound and get a dog, when we can buy a "unspoiled" pup from Leerburg and deepen his pockets even more. I know I sound anti breeder when I am really not, just trying to get this side of my point across. Some peoples blindness and pride/arrogance rub me the wrong way sometimes.

You are invited to visit with my family with yours. I'll take you and your family to go skiing, either at Hilltop, which is a half mile away, or to Alyeska, which is a world class skiing resort about 25 miles away. People fly here from all over the world to go skiing. (Your family can ski with my snow crazy daughter, I'll sit, drink cocoa, and read while you play. I only cross country ski.) I have a large bedroom with a king bed, a couch that folds out into a full bed, TV, etc, and you can stay here while you visit. Bring your dog or a couple of dogs too. I have a training room downstairs, you can show your dog off to me by putting him through his paces. We can go to the pound, and you can also point out the great dogs there that I could train in Schutzhund that would be as good as my imported working bred GSDs who have been bred for upteen generations to be working dogs, LOL. I'm game :-) Lets have some fun. That applies to DRFNO, or anyone else who has this difference of opinion with me. Come have some fun, and prove your point to me at the same time. I'll buy you eight lift passes if you can prove your point, LOL. Veronica

BTW, Lonewolf, you did not read my pricing, discounts,or policies. That is very assumptive on your part, making you very incorrect as well, and my feelings are hurt :-)~. I have sold only one litter in the last two years for $1500 each. That price did not include many discounts to my buyers, who were all experienced working dog people who knew the value of those particular bloodlines. They wished to stack the deck in their favor competitively. So whether I know what I am doing or not, there were other EXPERIENCED people who DO know what THEY are doing, and they bought a dog from me. As for that being an excessive price, do you have any idea what it costs when you ship a bitch 10,000 miles round trip to be bred to the best proven stud you can find? Stud fee, vet care, raw meat to the bitch and puppies, supliments like glucosamine chronditin, etc etc. In most litters, many do go to pet homes. Not every puppy (IN MOST, but not some)litters is a top Schutzhund or police prospect, there are a range of talents and personalities in the litter that will suit many needs. But they are bred to have the right stuff to do just about anything training-wise. Protective family companions do a job too, and those people who want this, want to stack the deck in their favor as well. So they do not go to the pound, they come to me, or other breeders like me. I give a $100 discount to those that intend to spay or neuter their pet. I give a 10% discount to those persons who risk their lives for the public good, SAR, police, military, detention officers, etc. I give a cash Awards to those who title their dogs, 25% to 50% of the purchase price for Companion dog to SchH1 titles. I give you five years to get these titles, too. My E litter (bred 2-3 on Belschik vom Eichen-Bruche, SchH3, IPO3, KKL2, WUSV, BSP, and German Police dog stud) was BASE priced at $800. So if you are in the military, you want a protective family companion (pet) who you intend to spay, who ends up getting a SchH1 on his dog for fun, your final price for a pup out of a 2-3 Belshik linebred litter ended up being only $310. Even without the award, the military person paid only $620 for this pup, with a 5 year hip guarantee and a three year guarantee against genetic diseases, and she came TATTOOED, MICROCHIPPED, VACCINATED, WORMED, and he also brought his puppy to my house for her subsequent nine weeks and twelve weeks puppy vaccinations for FREE. Dogs from the pound in Anchorage cost you $225 if they have not already been neutered. Ad two vet visits for the shots that I give for free to local buyers, and the pound dog can cost more than the final price one of my puppies. But you go ahead and take your chances at the pound. The mainly mediocre, to even POS dogs there need homes too.

The type of dogs in rescues may vary from one area to another. Please, just surf the net looking at these rescue dogs. I spent about 15 minutes on Petfinder last night only looking in my area of PA and found 5 I'd be interested in looking at for a pet/companion dog. 2 are obviously working lines and 3 others appear to be well bred. One looked like a neglected highline to me, the other 2 probably Am lines or part Am lines. A lot more purebred GSD's of course, but not all are attractive, many are old and gray, a few with DM, one with a spinal injury caused by an aggressive owner with a baseball bat. She needs to be help with the use of a harness to get around. Some are some missing ears, many scarred up from dog fights or people abuse none of which would mean much to me. I think all good dogs deserve second chances, even the ugly Am lines. If you wanted a GSD that would make a good pet, I'm pretty sure you could find one to love sitting in rescue. Of course if you want to title, breed, etc then that would not be the place to find your dream dog. The day after I put down a deposit on Blitz one of the local rescue offered a 4year old GSD bitch, spayed with a CDX title and trained for her UD.

I hate snow Veronica, so I will pass. I'd like to know how many of "your" bred pups have titles and get discounted. All is well and good in your contract unless the dog isn't able to get to the point of titling. Here a neutered or spayed dog costs less than $100 with shots and all, from the pound. Sounds like Alaska is a rip off all together. I think I made it clear in the following paragraph my point... I'm not knocking showing or dog sport just stating my opinion, that at least 80% of dogs are made into pets not competition dogs. You may not be able to take a dog from the pound and make him a seiger or get a Sch3 on him but I havn't seen many that couldn't excel in OB or agility, SAR, or a Special needs dog of some sort. The selection at the pound or shelters are so diverse you can find at least one who can do a job of some sort and many who are stable enough to make a lifelong companion. I didn't say anything about Top level Sch dogs from the pound, though I am sure those are there too. Everything including life, is throw away to so many people in this Barbie plastic world. A dog someone took to the pound becasue they moved, or changed girlfriends and the new one hates dogs, or they just don't have the time now, doesn't make them inferiour in the slightest. How many dogs do we see posted missing every year just on this board alone? How many dogs are stolen and try to run bak home only to be grabbed up by the pound master? I believe this whole thread started about people who come to buy a pup and "don't" want a showdog, just a pet. Would I recomned to my neighbor he take his pound puppy back and spend 8X's as much on a "real" pup for his kids? I don't think I would. Nobody needs to feel obligated to buy high priced dogs just to fit in the neighborhood. I don't look down my noseat him for what he did and I never would anyone else either. Thats the diference between me and some people I notice.

Lone wolf, buy where ever or what ever you want. Try not to have tunnel vision. Pay attention and I'll go slow for you. YOU DO NOT GET QUALITY DOGS FROM A RESCUE. THAT MY SLOW FRIEND, IS THE GIST OF MY POST. TO IMPLY ANYTHING ELSE IS ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY. If you paid attention on this board you would know that I have owned a number of rescued animals. I just don't go to the Humane Society or any other rescue looking for a QUALITY dog. Now, do I think you are better off buying a "pet" from a conscientious breeder? Yes, but if you can't or don't want to or you're too damn cheap than go to a rescue.

Lonewolf, As I also stated, I am not against the pound, rescue, or picking up strays. I also said that some great dogs may come from those sources, but IMO it is not a common experience. On my side, the fact that you said dogs in the pound: "You may not be able to take a dog from the pound and make him a seiger or get a Sch3"--but those are in fact my current personal requirements. Even in the past, when my requirements were for a lovable, protective, easy to train dog and not for Schutzhund, they could not be fulfilled by the dogs that I attempted to adopt. If a dog from my breeding cannot get to the point of titling, then it is the trainer rather than the dog. I award something as simple as obedience (CD) with a 25% of purchase price cash award. My oldest litter is now two years old. When Clarence obtains his Schutzhund title on Archie, he will be awarded a 50% cash award. One from that A litter is a trained guard dog, but without an official title. Another is a protective family companion who makes her family happy. Axe Max I have lost track of, though I have tried to send letter. His family is in the military. I have one bitch of my own who is in Schutzhund training. I cannot, of course, award myself. Finding a dog from the pound that may serve a purpose has not been an issue from my side. I just said they were in the main mediocre according to my standards, with great dogs being on one side of that, and worthless dogs being on the other. A dog who can do "some sort of job" is not a great dog. It is a mediocre dog who does some sort of job. I never said it was one in a million. I am also not one of those persons that abandoned a dog. Yours is a emotional outburst directed at the wrong person. I did not say that pound dogs do not have tough lives and even tough DEATHS resulting from the actions of what was supposed to be their families. I said they were mediocre in the main. Having a tough break does not make a dog suddenly superior in any way. I offered to host your family's vacation in complete seriousness and typical Alaskan hospitality. I am unable to debate this point with you when you in turn start becoming insulting to my state and all the good citizens in it. What does it say about your character that you resort to personal insults and slights in what has thus far been a respectful debate (on my side) of different opinions? In my discussion with you, I have not demeaned you, your state, or even your personal dogs. For the record, Alaska is a great state, we have more than the common amount exceptionally friendly and good people you would be LUCKY to get to know. I am glad you hate snow.

I hate snow too, but may I come anyway, maybe in August? It sounds like a nice vacation to me.