starting leg work - Page 14

 it still impresses me... got bitten by a Beagle once on my hand, it was my folt for trying to protect him*, but it was defenetly not funny... beeing bitten by a  Mali... hum... not cool...

*I worked for a Setter breeder, and we did some hotel in the kennels, a stupid Beagle stayed there for like a week and we where trying to socialize him with the pack so started with a real gentle irish red setter, well let just say that even that sweet dog was loosing it, and there was about to break a fight with the two, I put my hand to grab the Beagle... the rest is history... stupid me  lol ...15 days in pain not able to move my hand...

Repost the dam clip, everyone is talking about different clips.

I seen the one you meant Joan, nasty laceration.

Vk, the guy is lucky if tendons were not hit.
The wrong clips are still up, they should be able to see the dog in action in the clip black Mali put on page 13 at the bottom.

I saw it, Joan. Thanks.

I think the dog in the clip is decent, but it was nothing unexpected. To be honest the training is not the best. The dog is not ready for Bark and hold without restraint. He is dirty, the helper tries to correct this by cleaning him off the sleeve with the stick (very common) the dog is already coming off the sleeve and is attracted to the new movement of the stick hand going up. This gets the helper bit.

This dog should be on a backtie or table showing powerful barking on a slack line before he is sent into the blind. Also, in the blind I prefer handler corrections with a prong on a long line or the helper using an E Collar to keep the dog clean. These methods are better and more clear imo. That dog had good prey aggression but the improper foundation, and bad timing from the helper led to the helper getting bit.

 

Any dog that does bitework can have obedience it does not really change the outcome of how safe or unsafe the dog is.  If you have a dog with nerve issues or anti social no one is safe ever.  If you have a clear dog that likes to bite a suit or sleeve it does not impact the safety of the public.

 You're referring to the Mali, Haz? What do the rest of  you think?

I think a really 'good dog' knows the difference between being sent into a blind on an IPO sleeve an actual fight. A good dog will also know not to do that when you're playing the IPO game.

I don't think this dog is clear headed and reacting to a threat, I think it is a inexperienced prey-driven dog biting something else that is moving. So almost the exact opposite of a clear headed thinking dog. If it were doing what everyone thinks it would have dropped the live hand to bite the one that had the sleeve on when it came over his head to get his mouth loose. Not to say it can't be a good dog, needs work though.

Agreed, on a back tie, wouldn't even worry with a bark yet, I would just try and teach it a more stable bite.

If the dog was only prey driven reacting to movement when it took the live bite, it would have done the same when the sleeve was moving over his head.
Therefore this is a contradiction;
"I don't think this dog is clear headed and reacting to a threat, I think it is a inexperienced prey-driven dog biting something else that is moving."

He is going for the hand with the stick, and staying on it, Not jumping over to the next 'moving object' which is the sleeved arm.. Shows clear thinking, he's not going to allow hits, who knows what his history is with this decoy. Not all dogs are sport dogs...Disagree with this comment;
"So almost the exact opposite of a clear headed thinking dog."


"If it were doing what everyone thinks it would have dropped the live hand to bite the one that had the sleeve on when it came over his head to get his mouth loose."

If it were doing prey reaction to movement, it would have 'dropped the live hand' to bite the moving sleeve when it came over his head. The dog has experience the sleeve is not a threat...the hand with the stick is the threat and therefore needs to be neutralized, which the dog accomplished in spades...good boy.
One more thing, the handler pretty much created a problem the way they sent the dog the second time. The first time, handler accompanied the dog on a line, stayed during the hold and bark. Dog was clean, clear, given a grip and dog took a solid grip. Second time, handler sent the dog as tho sending for a bite, not a hold and bark. This dog doesn't like being hit, decoy messed up by not slipping the sleeve with the dirty bite, which I think the dog was inadvertently sent to take a bite not a h/b.

The simple facts as I see them, what is wonderful is that we can see different things and thats okay. Especially when its a plainly sensationalist pretty grainy, Russian, YouTube clip.

Dog bites sleeve (handler mistake, all that, agreed).

Man waves right arm with whip, dog bites right arm (would be a great response and this is how some guys train weapon targeting, also many don't agree blah blah, debate for another day)

Left arm comes slowly over the dogs head, it is in fact it slipped over his head pretty slowly (not enough to illicit prey response).

The man the drops the sleeve behind the dogs head and starts grabbing at the dogs mouth(so cant be simple sleeve desensitization) (this is a much more serious threat than a waving stick he could be popping fingers in his eyes), but the dog does nothing to react to this.

Just my opinion.

Dog was committed to the real bite...the sleeve is a waste of his time, dog got what he wanted, good solid grip. Sport training is a waste of a good dog here.