Thoughts on Limited Registration - Page 10

Good lord, what ever you say and wish believe.

Sv requires the adult dogs have certain titles before their litter can be registered. But the reg papers on a PUPPY are not restricted.

How are those papers not restricted if the litter cannot be registered without titled parents?

That is an actual question, because I am not understanding the difference...

A litter is registered by sv out of parents with appropriate certificates, etc..
The papers on those pups are not restricted. Send a pup to USA out of that litter, papers must follow the pup. Pup arrives in USA, reg pup in akc, pup grows up is now a dog. Dog is bred and litter is reg.
If the pup stays in Germany, the papers follow the pup....pup grows up, must be titled etc to reg a litter from it...the papers of the original pup are not restricted, the dog is eligable to be shown in breed ring, sport ring, etc.....but the Breed Registry is requiring qualifications to reg a litter out of that dog.
With akc limited, the dog is NOT eligable to compete in breed ring or register a litter out of said dog. However, obedience and other performance venues are ok...The seller is putting arbitrary stipulations on the owner before possibly lifting the limited restriction. Before some go ape shit over my saying 'arbitrary stipulations' ...it is arbitrary in that each seller ( owner of the litter) has their own stipulations whereas with sv, its the same requirement for every dog before its litter can be registered.

Quote: "The seller is putting arbitrary stipulations on the owner before possibly lifting the limited restriction."

Yes, these are arbitrary, since it is a private individual attaching strings to a sale and not an organization like the SV doing it as a standard procedure for all. Every such breeder could have a different set of "limited" strings, and thus I agree those are arbitrary stipulations, however much they try to sugarcoat it, in the guise of doing it for the betterment of the breed.

If somebody asks me for advice, I will certainly tell them to walk away from such breeders with strings, since there are reputable others who screen their buyers, but once they do, they skip the strings.

You two dingle balls need to look up arbitrary..... Arbitrariness is the quality of being "determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle. The breeders who have it have already stated why they do it, but they are all liars right, aaykay.

Almost every limited contract I have seen is pretty much the same, done with purpose. Xray & title = full. So now aaykay who believes gorillas and gsd's can be mated because he/she paid cash is calling the breeders with limited contracts, not reputable.

"How are those papers not restricted if the litter cannot be registered without titled parents?"

Theres no real difference. Till we are blue in the face it won't be uttered. Name game shenanigans plain and simple. Despite the glare in their eyes....

Theres always a cheat around everything... period.

That does not nullify the fact that they are RESTRICTED....... from registering the litter with the SV. The same silly ass argument is somehow missed as stated.... theres a cheat around from AKC limited to UKC or CKC for breeders with limited then full on contract fulfilled.

Same damn cheat, just no airplane involved. So by their own words there is no limited because you can cheat there is no restriction because you can cheat in spite of the fact that it does exist........ Good F G!

We may disagree, but I appreciate the explanation Joanro. Thank you :)

OK, I read every post, some twice. Some people should keep their opinions to themselves, (me included). However; my ire is heated up, and therefore I feel compelled to post on this “Limited AKC Registration” issue. It is a good American AKC, and American Constitutional Right to be able to make choices about things that belong to us, especially things we care dearly about. Like our dogs, our kennel name, our heritage, and the heritage of our dogs and puppies; our reputation, our conscience, and above all our integrity and honor. I read some posts that lacked honor and integrity on the board for sure. “Crap” in a public form shows lack of vocabulary, albeit; lack of self control, so that individual couldn’t be much of a dog trainer, or a breeder either. Both of those skilled occupations of love require a high level of self control.

One of the best posts was: "At least the Limited Registration People are trying to do something about the quality of dogs used for breeding".
The SV requirements are also good limiting measures, and both can certainly be circumvented if the criminal is desperate enough. Both are a
Human method of attempting to limit a lack of responsibility, in animal breeding circles by unscrupulous money grubbers, or glory hounds. Both measures show that good breeders care about the "Breeds Gene Pool"! Genetics are amazing, aren’t they? But; you’re talking about human greed, not German Shepherd Genetics here in this pole.

Never mind dogs for the moment; humans are breeding genetic drama Queens that think that if they don't agree with something, it's ok to make fun of others that work very hard to promote what they feel is right, good, and honest. Drama Queens that say they never breed and don't sell, but want to intimidate and make lite of those that do; and, then contradict themselves saying they only sold one. I have a hard time following a forked tongue with no integrity. Drama Queens that keep talking about the CKC, UKC, as if no knew or read it the first time. Maybe that is what he’s doing, and wants to justify it, or give it credence?

Enough criticisms; wear your wagging tongue on your sleeve if you will, pass-up and turn your back on strings-attached and make those breeders happy you did. Try to “Screen” a Bull Elephant if you will, but you will have no better luck than trying to screen the general public, especially those that have no integrity or honor. How would you “Screen” a person whose very religion directs them to lie to you? Forget Screening as a safe guard, or prevention method. Someone should have screened the last four U.S. Presidents before they were sworn into office! No pun intended. The point should be well taken, MONEY changes some peoples moral fibers, instantaneously without warning; they will change shirts and parties, and then deny it in the next sentence.

And Moral Fiber brings us back to Genetics; Now Canine Genetics: Breeding two excellent specimens only gives you the hope that you can expect a certain set of standards of similarity in the progeny, and nothing more. Because you are talking about Zillions of DNA that can match up that you have no control choice of what they match with. Those Zillions of DNA form the “Breeds Gene Pool”; and, you did not do a DNA test to prove that the previous breeder even used the Sire and Dam that your pedigree says he did. So now without that constant every litter, every breeding, DNA parentage test to confirm those dam’s and sire’s, you don’t even know that there wasn’t a Collie five generations back in your pedigree, before you were even born yourself. Now do you?

So give me a break on this “Limited Registration” with “Limited restrictions” on when and how you can breed your puppy. I have seen some elaborate puppy tests, that were not worth the paper they were selling them on, without genetic control you only hope you get a winner especially a seven or eight week old puppy. Eight now, to make sure they are litter imprinted. If it is so easy to pick a “Premium Breeding Prospect out of a litter, IE sort the litter; given the number of litters born everyday, why are there not more VA dogs in every show? Some gifted breeders may be able to sort every litter with some consistency of accuracy, but few they are, and not as many, as there are placing higher prices on certain puppies. Brag all you want about standing behind your dogs, or puppies, or litters, and how perfect they are, but if you have enough of them, Genetics will eventually teach you a valuable lesson. You mostly find the wind bags have bred four or five litters, or maybe lucky and have bred ten. Time and numbers will teach a lesson eventually, so blow while your breath is fresh, because someday it may not smell so good.

Why sell your puppies with a Limited Registration? Because humans are the buyers! Humans that will do anything for their canine child, just like a mother for her child, there is no limit what they will do to protect, defend, prolong, and provide for! The buyer has an older German Shepherd that means the world to them, and they want a female to reproduce that old boy before he dies, or vice versa. Doesn’t matter if their Old Roy is 4 inches to short, 10 inches to long, has a disqualifying coat, missing teeth, pendulant ears, or a gay tail, they still want to breed it, bad hips and all. No clue what breeding means, what they will do with the other nine puppies, or what those dogs needs, are for reproduction and health. There is one in every county, city, state, country, and behind every tree, just waiting for you to give them a Full Breeding Registration. Maybe you’re a natural at showing dogs. Maybe you have unlimited financial resources, and do not have to work for a living with time to show and train. Maybe you have a family member, or friend that has show connections, experience, or a link to someone in the show business. This is not true for most people, in fact, many would be breeders are not public people, and the idea of even attempting to get their dog a CGC is a major emotional and physical task for them. But if they are willing to take on that task with all their personal and emotional obstacles, and they complete it; no one should laugh at them, or belittle what they have accomplished with their dog, because it was done with love and caring for the dog that moved them to do it. That is why a little OFA, or CGC in a Limited Registration contract is important planning. And yes it puts up a road block for the Litter LOTTERY breeder, whom think they are going to make a million over night putting two random dogs together, and screwing up the Genetic Gene Pool with your love of the breed life long bloodlines and Kennel Name. I rest my case!

You can rest your case but your diatribe is crap (did I just type that again in a public forum? oh crap). Thou thinkest himself most self important.
crap1
krap/
vulgar slang
noun
noun: crap
1. something of extremely poor quality.nonsense. rubbish; junk.2. excrement.

Can't quantify it but I believe its more to protect and control profit than it is to improve the breed. Buyer purchases pup, with the intention to train and possibly breed, if worthy of doing so. Life gets in the way. Job change, increased family obligation, local club disbands, etc. Dog is now four or five years old. Situation changes, dog OFA's Good, dog gets sch 1. Where's my full registration. Breeder is out of business, in jail, incapacitated, house fire, moved, etc. Now you are unable to obtain full registration even though you fulfilled your part of the obligation.

People who have knowledge of the breed know when a quality, titled dog was bred to CRAP, for economic gain. You can put as many safe guards on anything you want, but it still does not guarantee crap. So I will continue to buy pups with full registrations.

I am not trying to diminish anyone's efforts at improving the health of the GSD in America but limited registrations is not going to do it. Limited registration is used to protect those investments who spent thousands of dollars to import a dog to the US. You want to use these lines? You pay and do as I say or you cannot use these lines. Of all the love, care and training that folks have put into their breeding programs, who in the USA has produced dogs with the consistency of vom Maineiche, Tiekerhook, Wannaer Hohen, Schmiedegarten, Staatsmacht, just name a few. None of these kennels has limited registrations. But if they did I would understand. Most of these limited registration kennels, in the USA, paid money for titled, imported dogs and bred them. This has nothing to do with experience and training knowledge. Protecting a brand and improving the breed. Laughable! You show proof of 3 or more generations with your kennel name, with successful progeny, working in different venues, then maybe you could say you know what you are doing as a breeder. If you are selling pups from dogs you imported, you are profiting on another kennels experience.

Kyle, two excellent posts.
I bred my first gsd 20yrs ago. I just finished burying my twelve yr old sch2 (hot, high in trial in protection ) female I imported as a puppy. I have a nine week old male pup I'm raising that is her great grand son. I did not breed the litter.
The old girl I just buried is one of two female pups I imported over 11 yrs ago. Of the three litters from both females, I never sold a pup with limited reg. My old girl I buried this morning has two pups from two different sires that two different novice owners raised trained and titled...both those dogs (one a male the other a female with different sires), living on opposites coasts of the us were high in trial in tracking....trained by novices and the female ( who I GAVE to the owner, no strings) was also high overall score in trial with 100 pts in tracking and is now ipo2. The male is now ipo3.. Nobody told me how to breed my female, nobody held my hand while I placed her pups. It was not luck, it was not sv, it was not akc limited. It was because I know dogs and can usually pick out a bull shitter human from a straight talker human.
All you proponents of akc limited, I don't care what is in your sales contract, I don't care what you do with your breeding program ( if you have one)....nothing you do will affect my day or my life, so put your insults back in your life....they are only making you look like whiners who are whining about not controlling the rest of society.