Thoughts on Limited Registration - Page 2

Gigante, I read your post 3 times, but I still don´t know if I understood what you said.

I didn´t say : You must use the SV rules" . I talked about "... a certain standard ( HD/ED/IPO/show rating, whatever )".

In my mind there IS a big difference - no breeder who does have a standard of any kind ( be it only OFA HD rating ) is able to tell a potential buyer if a puppy will be "breedworthy" or not later on. It´s simply impossible.

The only conclusion for a breeder in your country would be selling on limited registration only, changing into "full" as soon as the breeders standard is met by the adult dog.

LIMITED AKC REGISTRATION is a TOOL for breeders to utilize in the control over WHAT THEY PRODUCE.

 

United States  is a free country...  we COVET our freedom, our right to retain our choices,  our ability to control and police ourselves, to the extent that we don't infringe on the rights of other citizens.

Our ancestors came to this country to practice these very things.. this is WHY so many people want to COME to our country.

 

Some breeders in USA will use "limited/full" to their financial advantage, others will use it to exercise a certain QUALITY CONTROL over THEIR product.. (IE dogs/puppies/bloodlines).

It is a wonderful TOOL..available to breeders without regulation..  without controls set on requirements...  individual breeders can decide what their requirements are, and not be told what they have to do.

 

I personally use limited registration for all of the reasons Susie mentioned...  I have 6 generations of homebred dogs, I have worked very hard and at great personal expense to produce my "line" and I am VERY proud of it..

I absolutely do NOT want some unscrupulous scam artist puppy-producing idiot ruining my years of work, with no care for what they destroy, what innocent people they hurt, or what consequences that will follow their irresponsible actions for decades to come.

That does not mean I will not freely and at no extra charge give full breeding rights to worthy individuals, as I ABSOLUTELY want to see my work carried on by the future young people in this country.

 

Utilize the tool as a means to being a RESPONSIBLE individual. Doing otherwise just fuels the PETA and HSUS freaks and their agendas...  and rightly so...  they have an excellent argument these days. Look at all of the goverment rules and regulations that we now have here..  much, much different than when I started with dogs over 30 years ago.

 

As I always say, BE PART OF THE SOLUTION, NOT THE PROBLEM.

Pull up almost ANY really "empty" pet pedigree, and track it back...  it ALWAYS leads to some "nice" dog that SOMEBODY sold some other idiot a full AKC registration on, and it was bred ad-naseum generation after generation, with literally hundreds of offspring, that offer no benefit to the breed. These are what fill the majority of shelter/rescue animals... go visit some of the adoption websites, and peruse the photos of available dogs. They are poster dogs for breed faults.

 

 

As to the DIFFERENCE in AKC registration and SV rules;

the DIFFERENCE is AKC breeders can CONTROL the registration of what they produce and SELL... Germany and SV CANNOT once it leaves Germany.

I can import a total train wreck of a dog, register is with AKC, and breed the living daylights out of it, whether or not its german breeder, the SV, or anyone else likes it.

 

 

 

 

I sell pet puppies on limited, show prospects on full. I have to sell show prospects on full...they can't show on limited (which is dumb). Everybody pays the same price, regardless.

Susie

Sorry posting without coffee. :) Another shot

The individuals that have a problem with limited would/should have a problem with the SV or any other registry. They just want full control, no rules, no requirements I paid money leave me alone, headset.  Limited cuts my selection of prospects in third or half almost instantly, and Im good with that, many people when then learn limited move on to cash headset breeder. The east line is very small its even more limited by working traits. As denwolf mentioned above breeder prerogative. Having someone without any line knowledge most likely take it backwards makes my blood sweat and tears worthless. Its also a serious problem as there are plenty of mix alot people who think you must mix east line to get something of value, this further dilutes line potency. Its a control mechanism they are the same registry or contractually. 

Within the SV, every dog is on a 'limited registration' until the prerequisites for breeding a registered litter are fulfilled. Both the required prequisites and the acknowledgement of their fulfillment are independent of the breeder.

With AKC Limited Registration, the breeder sets the requirements, and the buyer is dependent on the breeder to convert from Limited to Full if and when the requirements are met. If there is a personal conflict, or if the breeder is unable due to illness or lack of organization to convert from Limited to Full, or imposes extra charges, there is nothing the buyer can do.

But in the US market, Limited Registration is the only tool a breeder has (besides thorough screening of buyers) to protect their puppies and also their breeding goals at least somewhat. Thus a good thing. As Denwolf said.



 

The limited registration isn't perfect, but its a heck of a lot better option than the traditional old way we things were done, which was breeder held the AKC papers until the animal was spayed/neutered.

 

Interestingly enough, if you have a clear and well written contract/agreement that specifically outlines the breeder/buyer requirements and the role of AKC papers/limited /full, the AKC WILL work with a buyer who contacts AKC about resolving the registration issue after the requirements are met...

I know AKC claims it does NOT do this, but I personally have seen them use a contract to determine the status/kennel name/etc.

 

If I had Xeph's issue, I would either hold papers or do a co-own on the female to prevent illicit "breedings" before certain requirements were met. There is obviously a matter of trust that has to be extended both ways.. 

 

As Adam Kuhn once told me.. "I am trusting you with my puppy, you will have to trust me with its paperwork".

 

 

 

All of my show puppies are currently co owned, though I sign off once certain requirements are met.

I am a responsible owner. Have never bred a litter. However, if a breeder says "limited", I walk away without a backward glance. If I pay money, I don't want ANY kind of strings attached, whatever be the motive.

And there are plenty of breeders that are happy to send a puppy on its way without that stipulation. But those of us that use limited shouldn't be looked at as "bad" because others don't like those terms.

Well said Susie and DenWolf,

I do it for quality control cause you can not say a dog is breed worthy as a pup, and just because my name is on the papers I don't want a bad reputation.

I have reversed registrations in the past, not everyone thinks about breeding their dogs, but I feel giving out full registration is telling them that their pup is breed worthy from the start.

A kennel can get a tarnished reputation in no time.

I would however give out full reg. to another reputable breeder.

I once gave full reg. to a lady just starting out with breeding dogs, she has one of my male pups, after she did an ofa prelim on him,  she studded him out at 9 months old, I'd say lesson learned.....