Thoughts on Limited Registration - Page 6

So what most are saying is that if a breeder whats to fallow SV standards in the U.S. where there is no standards, is a bad thing and you should just send out working reproductive system into the world? I think like Bob stated above if done right is a good thing. You do the work, you get the breeding. Why should you be able to breed when you sit on the couch, and do nothing. Just curious how many here that think limited is a bad thing, breed their dogs with no titles, and health screening

I get the idea of “no strings attached” but to me that just means “when I fail at titling, or something gets in the way of me really putting in the work, I’ll still be able to breed the dog, tell the puppy buyers how the parents have titles and are really accomplished, and still charge $1500 per puppy even though I didn’t do anything with the current dog, oh, and let me throw in how I titled this one other dog before so I definitely know what I’m doing and what I’m talking about.” It’s the American way of thinking…what’s mine is mine and I will do with it what I want. It’s people thinking about breeding and the “pay off” before they think about the breed. Most people that buy a puppy, with breeding plans in mind two years down the road, raise that puppy in their home, train it and put hundreds if not thousands of dollars into it up until that point, aren’t going to be very objective about the animal in front of them. Then sometimes something happens and they stop going to club, lose a helper, whatever it is. Well…thank god we live in America where an IPO title isn’t a minimum requirement, so as long as they have full registration, they’ll breed the dog. I understand it, why set unnecessary requirements on yourself if you don’t have to.

But yes…the system isn’t perfect, mostly because there are enough breeders that produce very good dogs who don’t care to “protect” their lines and will sell on full registration no matter what. It’s another system that again, if everyone followed it would make some dent in the breeding of untitled dogs…but because you can pretty easily find a fully registered puppy from similar and capable lines, it doesn’t do much.

If the exact pedigree matters to you though, and that’s your only option, it might make a difference in the buying decision and also the vigor with which you work and title the dog. But since the exact pedigree doesn’t matter to 99% of people, limited registration doesn’t really have any effect on that either.

Xeph: How is a dog on limited any different than the requirements the SV puts on animals in order to get pink papers for puppies?

The elephant in the room..... why is this still un answered I have asked the question and stated you must be against a standard or SV standard to have a problem with limited registration in the states. The two don't pair.

The only other logical option is power control or the cheat around SV. It would be in the interest of the dogs for the original registry like a SV to offer a fix to the cheat around, it would be complicated but shows an interest in what is suppose to be your main goal the betterment of bred.

Thank you, Hundmutter.
As yet nobody mentioned any country proceeding like the USA in this matter...

I guess Bav is spot on - the vast majority of "potential breeders" doesn´t want to fulfill any requirements made by others.

What I really don´t understand - a high percent of "our" dogs is titled/shown/breed surveyed - but the whole majority of these dogs ( especially the males ) is NEVER used for breeding later on.
Most people who buy a German Shepherd over here just want to train and have fun with their dog ( most people only own ONE dog at a time ) whereas in the USA people seem to buy dogs because they want to breed.

Just my impression, might be totally wrong

Susie, you're not far off. If it's purebred they're looking to breed. If they "searched out" either champion lines or schutzhund titled lines, they're looking to breed. If they plan on doing IPO and trying to title, they're looking to breed.

I think it hits them hard when they finally figure out how many dogs get bred to in the United States and what it takes to get more than just the local club breedings or be asked to breed by some more well known kennels. If they have a female, I think its an even larger shock when it gets difficult to sell puppies because no one knows your name, who your dog is, or doesn't care who your dog is because you barely got a 70, 70, 70 in your club trial.

Susie,

Its not the US preceding in any way, its a decent percentage of breeders. Not be argumentative but a high percentage is 51% thats not realistic, but I could be wrong ;)~. A higher percentage then most would be an expected outcome from the country that from the beginning embedded titling with ownership. Most other countries did not follow that pattern. For the good, bad or ugly the expectation that the numbers would even be close nation to nation is apple orange.

For me even from abroad by higher percentage then just 5 years ago, people want breeding rights immediately.

Quote: "people want breeding rights immediately".

I disagree. People want a dog with no strings attached. Not "breeding rights". I personally have never bred a dog - ever, even though all of my 3 dogs are "breedable" and from a genetics perspective, very valuable.

However, when I buy a dog, I skip the "limited registration" breeders, since I am not after drama or encumbrances. Don't know why that's a difficult concept to understand.

If a person PAYS MONEY for something, dog, horse or hampster, they should own it and not have strings attached...

I always used to think the same, Joan, but the longer I thought about the non existing breeding rules in a lot of countries ( not the USA exclusively ) the more I tend to acknowledge the advantage of "limited" registrations.
If I were a breeder living in the US, I´d do it, and I am not thinking about SV rules right now, I am thinking about HD/ED and "some" proof of working ability.
As long as AKC doesn´t ask for any breeding requirement this seems to be the only way to go.

I said it before, and I say it once again - there would be a lot of people breeding German Shepherd dogs without any health tests and any proof of working ability in Germany, too, if they would be able to get pedigrees for them.
People are the same worldwide.

Gigante, "high percentage" is relative, in case 1% (just a guess) of the North American German Shepherd population is health tested, titled, and breed surveyed, than 10% of the German population would be a "high percentage"... (1000% more). - I guess it´s more, but I am too lazy to do a research.
Additionally maybe a little less than 1% of the dogs bred in the USA are titled according to the German system, but over here 100% in case they want to get pedigrees ( that´s 10000% more).

What I tried to say is that I have the feeling a lot of Americans want to "breed", whereas a lot of Europeans just want to own/train a dog, without the intention to breed.

Only a very small percentage of our titled males ( no real numbers, sorry, might be 5 %, just a guess ) is used for breeding, whereas in your country a titled dog automatically seems to be a breedworthy dog, and I am not even talking about show titles, or breed survey right now.

This is my impression, I might be wrong, but there seems to be a tendency.

Joanro said, "If a person PAYS MONEY for something, dog, horse or hampster, they should own it and not have strings attached..." 

I couldn't have said the above any better myself! I totally agree with the above statement from Joanro. Currently, I have Missouri Fox Trotters, German Shepherd Dogs and English Setters. Not one of them has strings attached, or they wouldn't be living at my place. This is just my opinion which every person on this database is entitled to. Anyone that has animals can sell them however he/she wants (that is his/her right), but I, personally, will not pay more for an animal because of its color, sex or to obtain full registration. There are way too many great animals out there, and those of us who feel this way simply don't have to buy any animals with strings attached.