IPO Training Order - Page 3

@susie, you have lost sight of my point to the OP. They WILL eventually need to choose a method for training the dog to do scentwork. In most cases within the USA, IPO tracking is taught to dogs via sightwork, combined with strict body posturing, that punishes air scenting. Those dogs, once trained that way are ruined and have great difficulty later moving on to the FH, RH, AKC tracking, NACSW nosework and/or the STp

This was sight of your point :"... this may affect the dogs method for solving the tracks and could result in point deductions because the dog is really tracking and not following an obedience routine."

Trained properly this statement is nonsense.

The OP asked about IPO routine, he didn´t ask about RH, AKC, or StPr. He doesn´t want to compete in StPr, he wants to compete in IPO.

I hope he is still reading, and didn´t decide to do nothing instead...

In my country its called the police or customs. What country do private security guards legally do apprehension and narc work??

How does that work in court where the apprehension will end up.

Just interested cos I know security dog handlers in about every major developed country.

Trained properly this statement is nonsense.

@susie, yes, but that is how many people are training thier IPO dogs in the USA, at least the ones I have seen. At USA trials the dogs that get the top tracking scores are usually very poor trackers outside the trial environment, SPECIFICALLY I mean, in conditions where the grass that is taller than 3 inches, has areas with more dirt than grass, littered with wild animal cross tracks, I can go on and on. Many IPO dogs in the USA CAN'T track, they can only do the IPO scored event called "tracking".  Look at the track layer rules if you have any doubts, its already been proven, at a past National no less, that slight variations in the track laying method can throw off, the supposed, TOP IPO dogs in the USA.  Thats says a LOT about how they were trained and how they got as far as they did.

@susie, I hope the OP now knows how much BS info they are going to encounter while trying to narrow down which training methods to eventually adopt.  Also, as is common in the USA, if, the dog washes out of an IPO clubs selection process, for whatever reason, the OP may opt to do one of the other events I noted.  This has always been a area where I have disagreed with other members of this forum. I don't think of IPO as the lone, breed survey level sport for GSD's, that is recognized by the SV.  I believe along with IPO this includes, the HGH and the RH, with the FH and the STp as legitimate supporting titles, in ANY combination (meaning that some one earning an RH title plus an STp or an HGH title plus an FH, etc. is the training at the SAME LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY as someone doing an IPO title plus an FH).

@vk4gsd, cargo containers and jails are two areas I know of, where private security firms, that have canine handlers, are hired out regularly, for both patrol and contraband searches.  There are a LOT of these companies in the USA, Canada and the UK and all have direct government contracts to provide handler+canine teams.  In fact, I quickly used the term "security", off the top of my head, because of a recent encounter with a company that does this work in both the UK and Australia.  It may not be a "universal term", but its definitely out there and is named in some RFPs/RFQs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKuqsbCKpqs&ebc=ANyPxKo1-XKQShZ6L6Xw9DR_BXeW5uqLOFopR7Y01Z4Oi6wutC6RSGQHlrfG34iMvZB_e0t37Jike_3BE3hJ2pJitqFDrul5PA

I am still not able to embed a Youtube video?!?

Take a look at the first seconds, all the people "crossing" the field...

It´s a totally different kind of work, over here we even do have 2 different names for the nosework:

IPO = "suchen"  StPr = "stöbern"

Englisch maybe to track / to rummage ( ? )

Momo, I really hate your changing of posts. It´no fun to reread every single post, because you may have changed the context.

@susie, your last statement shows that you have never worked hardcore cross tracks, so as much as you may believe, the reality is that those cross tracks don't fool the dog one bit. The dogs search pattern may look random to you but that dog is working the track initially, not the article. IF, it was working the article alone, it would not have searched using the method we see. The only way a handler could recognize what I have described is by having titled in ALL the various scentwork events and overtime learning to read how the dogs change their search strategies accordingly.  Since this dog most likely learned tracking first, it only natural that he would "track" near the ground, to the articles, rather than read the wind current and scent to the article with his nose high up.  I assure you, not ONCE does this dog airscent to the article, the dog is clearly following the previous haphazard steps of the person that placed the article on the ground.  If the dog was airscenting to the article, he would have taken a more direct route, but I really don't believe that this dog knows how to do that.

Too bad the video does not show the process of putting the article on the ground.  I'd bet my house the track patern would be close to what the dog did during his search.

Simple if you CHOOSE to do IPO use the methods to get the best results for IPO.

I am sure barn hunts and IPO are quiet different, neither is better or worse, sorry just having trouble seeing the argument.

Momo, I am able to throw a ball into the wilderness as far as possible,  and almost all of my dogs would "rummage" and find it - no footsteps, no track, simply using the nose. They wouldn't indicate accordingly because they never learned it, but they would have success without any track. I guess VK would need 2 or 3 days, and his drivy  dog would find his toys, VK directing him. StP handler normally use food as reward - command down, the articel in front/ between the dogs legs, immediate food reward...

@vk4gsd, I'm not making an argument, I'm giving advice. My experience tells me that this persons dog is always at risk of being "washed out" by their local clubs trainer. When that happens they may be interested in doing something else. But, by training solely for IPO tracking, using the "established methods" this person will be risking not being able to "fix the dog" so as to be competent at the FH, RH, Nosework, AKC Tracking or Barnhunt events.

IPO trained dogs are notorious for being afraid to raise their head for nosework searches (I'd estimate up to 50%) and also have great difficulty in passing the VST. Better to be cautious and train for flexibility and since this is likely their first attempt at IPO, the IPO titles may be far out of reach. So why ruin the dogs chances, at the so-called "lesser sports", during this process?