Training ERROR or just a good dog - Page 2

I see that the dog is equipment oriented dog ( carrying sleeve around) and bit the hand in momentum of the exercise and not because he is civil. Then ( obvious  from letting go without command)  he realized that he is not biting sleeve which is what he was trained ,. so he let go because that was not what he supposed to do since in this type of training the decoy is actually a "helper" and he is dog's friend.  The dog did not want to hurt a friend. That is what I see. Nice dog. Can be trained civil but IMO  carrying sleeve around is not the way I would go.   JMO. 

Nice dog I like him. He should make a very nice police dog or PP dog for sure. I do not see him as equipment oriented.
As for him letting go when he bit. If you watch the video carefully You can see the decoy wi his other hand reach under the dogs jaw and quickly pop the dogs mouth off his hand.

thanks, and yes Jyl you are right, the helper makes him release, also if you look good the dog is trying to rebite after that
Qman that is exactly how I see this

 

 

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It was a Training ERROR, as the header suggested, so OP knows that. It's a good dog, everyone agrees. I haven't seen many Trainers having the balls (some don't have them naturally) to post their own errors.

Duke

Co-sign Swarnendu's comment, and also have to give credit to the helper for immediately re-engaging the dog in the work, instead of stopping the training to go off and tend to his hand.

we work many dogs, 12 in this session, and we tape several trainings, so we do get errors on tape sometimes, and again, im very happy with this helper who is clearheaded and without the macho behaviour I see a lot in other countrys,
must say in general I think czech republic has the best helpers in the world, for building, young dogs, correcting mistakes and top sport, and we have a large section of top helpers who we see on podiums on national and worldlevel

I have reviewed the video in slow motion and I must correct my prior evaluation. IMO it was not handler error but decoy error. Even though I have read it in OP, at first it was not clear to me from the description that the decoy was trying to make the dog to bite the sweat shirt held between the hands. Now I see it. While the sleeve was held in front of the decoy, for some reason the left hand sleeve slipped out of the right hand of the decoy. From the wetness ( I assume saliva) and holes on the sleeve it seems that this had been done several times before the incident. From that we then know that the dog was in mode to bite in this case sleeve of the sweatshirt. The dog thus went "there" in the anticipation of such bite even though there was no bite sleeve or sweatshirt sleeve there and the dog in his momentum bit what ever was there - which in this case was the hand of the decoy which was in extreme proximity of the place where the dog bites the sweatshirt or equipment sleeve.
I also now see that the decoy made the dog let go by squeezing his Adam's apple. The fact that the dog bit bare hand does not signify that the dog is civil because the error bite was caused by the momentum and rhythm of the repeated action.
IMO the dog may be eventually trained to be civil, but at this stage of the training the dog is clearly equipment oriented and it is not civil because civil dog does not carry sleeve around and will never show his ass to the decoy.
JMO.

... it is not civil because civil dog does not carry sleeve around and will never show his ass to the decoy. 

I disagree with this statement.     For example, my dog is civil and would bite the body if not trained to target the sleeve for the safety of the helper and for sport (IPO) work.   He will carry the sleeve for a short distance as he was trained to do as part of the reward for 'winning' the sleeve and to 'unload' him to prepare for the out.    This does not diminish the fact that he is more civil and works slightly more defence than prey, it simply means that is what he was trained to do for sport work.    'Absolute' statements such as you have made are not correct and cannot be applied to every dog.  

With regards to the title of the thread - I believe it to be both - training error AND good dog. 

Good eye Hans. He disengaged the dog by gripping the Adams apple. So he actual took the dog into avoidance for a short period of time and reengaged the dog. Dose this make the dog any less civil?