Roached backs - spread the religion! - Page 11

Hi guys,

sorry, Uwe. The reason the pictures are missing is because I had uploaded them from your homepage to my photobucket account, and from there, I had used them in the thread which I had started. Just recently, I cleaned up my photobucket album and did not realize that it also erases the photos on discussion forums. Sorry!!!! I do not have them anymore.

And Uwe? I know I promised you that translation. Sorry again, but we have been so busy with house hunting and working overtime during the past few months (it is an election year). I will look at your translation, promise! See you in Aachen!

Chris

You are correct Blitzen.Pre 1990 you did not see roached backs and you didnt see shortened muzzles...Big heads.I watched as the lab went down the tubes just as other breeds.The emphasis was on the big head.This over time mutates the breed.Why did they do it?It was standard and acceptable...and the people won! Not the breed or the dog.Where were these teeth supposed to go or the tongue in the end result? Its like this people.So much has changed in the last twenty yrs.It really is best to listen to the elders that were a part of that change.Some went show/some went work...some continued for the total dog which is herding/tending..dogs that could race and never breakdown.The ones that did knew what dog would be the wheeler.In ref to the roach back.Sure I see alot for sale.I also see gsds for sale that are walking on callouses on their hocks.I see those that cant even close their mouth.I see those that are healthy strong that have not a good temperment...not enviromentally based.Wonder why??There is so much fad with the gsd just as other breeds.How do they get screwed up??Wonder why? There is such mention of Max which is good.But I think if he was alive today..He would shut down any standard.Within the standards..Owners have failed to see over the years what they have done..as well as breeders.In ref to someone stating about the wolves in Russia? Wolves adapt very well given their territory...They are not just there. Actually the wolves just as some other wild breeds will adapt to breed better to structure themselves in the long run.Not just pack manner..But physically. A roach in a dog shouldnt be condemed.If the roach is in balance with the dog entirely..that is good.Not just in looking.A lower roach may be better than higher one...depending on the overall.If any type of roach is a weak one in the spinal cord.It may be due to the rest of the body. These high headed dogs from the peak of the shoulder given the rest of their body are not even able to track with impulsion from the rear for long periods of time..going fast.

Hello Chris,

you can edit your replies using the link to my side, here you can upload the pic or only link them. I remember you had to do that in this way, cause if people would have seen the link to my side they could have seen the end of the story.

Cu in Aachen, Harras is entered, I'm total exited to show the work of Harras in protection in that gorgeous stadium!

Uwe 

Good morning Uwe,i did not realize this subject had been diccussed before as i am knew to this forum.I did however go back to your link and read all the posts and i hope you are right about people learning.I saw three pictures of SILBERSEE'S two puppies and dam of puppies and they are gorgeous.I loved the dam,as i have a big attraction to all blacks,do not see a lot of good ones in the ring here in Scotland.I am deeply offended that the label roach back is flung about so easily,it has been a long time since i heard the word.I have to admit that i was brought up with the old English "type" and the first time i saw a "germanic" type i nearly passed out.We called them roachy,bannana backs,and thought they were ghastly.I very very slowly changed my mind after finding out more about them.Now after owning the correct type since 1975 i would never own anything else.And yes back then there were those that had exteme back lines but todays dogs are nothing like these first dogs i saw. Uwe i totally agree the gsd is a working dog, and those people who breed just for that  and ignore correct conformation and vice versa should not be breeders.If you cannot or will not breed correct dogs in every way do something else and leave it to those who love a complete gsd. I suppose most of the people on this thread will find the sieger winners incorrect, i would think that the dogs in GERMANY where the dog originates from,are the best bloodlines we could get. and the GERMAN breeders must look at some of the result of AMERICAN AND BRITISH breeders and wonder what we have done to thier GERMAN shepherds.     On a lighter note hope you have great results with your super male HARRAS in Aachen,and all you do with him he is superb!!!!  ALL THE BEST UWE,  liz

Another part of the legend:

"The roached back start in the eighties"

look at the Sieger 1955 VA1 Alf vom Nordfelsen, if you train him like today its easy to present him in the actual way ( yes, its a question of a well trained musclar backhand).

You see the same dog, with legs not stretched out so far.

So please people, its ok to dicuss and learn, but please before you "spread" your opinion, try to understand what is the truth. Please adjudge only when its proven and only when you know what you do!

First proof than bomb! Should be written in the american bill of rights.... would save a lot lives and time

I'm confused, do some of you think a roach is or is not correct? If so, then quote the area of the SV standard that supports  your opinion.

I'd also love to know how to "train" a dog with a straight, firm topline to stand with a roached topline and why anyone would want to do that in the first place. 

Ithink what most people are trying to say is the roach back,ie where the back is higher than the withers is not as common as some would think.As has been said before a lot of dogs are posed by a handler to look more rounded on top,but a true roach is not correct and the breed standard does not ask for it.On the other hand it does not ask for a square look either.All dogs entered at the german sieger are judged under sv rules,does this mean if they are stood to look more rounded they should be excused from the ring.The breed standard is the description of a perfect gsd most of us have typical gsds.All dogs have some faults,in the show ring it is the degree of fault that is considered against the breed standard.I think there is more to worry about in the gsd than overlines. Back to the sv and sieger winners,most of the pictures of these dogs posed do not have poker straight backs,are these dogs incorrect, NO WAY!!!!!! liz

Karpfenrücken / roached back isn't correct, but, I can't remember it one in the top show lines the last years.

By that way, the working lines are coming back to the standard and the look of the showlines.

Call it what you will, any topline other than a straight one is incorrect for the breed. I've seen plenty of photos of dogs touted to be the best ever that did not have a straight topline and the "roach", "curve", "arch" did not exceed the height at the withers. IMO any curve in the backline is a serious fault whether or not it exceeds the height at the withers. A greyhound's "arch" should not exceed it's height either, but a correctly built dog of that breed can never have a straight topline. An "arch", "roach" whatever can appear anywhere in a GSD's topline and often does. That still makes it a faulty topline. If it's located closer to the rear of the dog it's not going to exceed the height at the withers, but it's still not going to be a straight topline. either and should be considered faulty. It is also seen when these dogs are moved out. I really cringe when I see some photos on this board of showlines moving with humped backs and their owners and breeders patting themselves on the backs for a job well done. 

The video of Dingo speaks louder than all the words any of us could possible say about how a great GSD should move. His backline remains firm. I will give you this much, some show photos are just horrible, do not look anything at all like the dog. In that case, the owner should have enough sense to not use them in advertising.  However, movement videos do not lie.

Held

I am glad this topic is here. I did not ask for DaKota (she is my rescue), but I did end up keeping her.

I never knew about roached backs. When I got her, She was all skin & bones. When I would look at her

I seriously thought she had a massive tumor on her back. That was 8 1/2 yrs. ago.

When it comes to all my animals, I want to know more about them in every way, shape & form.

I want to know what is OK & what is not.

I also work as a dog groomer & helper in a boarding kennel. Sometimes owners will ask a question

& I want to answer them as correctly as I can.