Roached backs - spread the religion! - Page 7

I guessed right way too much of the time, 4pack. Irritating when I would pull up the picture, take the time studying the dog, only to find there was no score. Oh well, give it a try---interesting. I usually found if the front looked much stronger and sometimes bigger than the back end--that usually wasn't a good sign. Angulation was never really a factor. This was an easy conclusion to achieve---the front had no fault and doing all the work, built muscle. The rear would then appear frail. I would only use this method to judge an older dog or more compact physique youngster. The longer bodied, leggy pups are harder to make calls on. They grow slower and can play catch-up. Stability in joints takes longer---that's why I appreciate those gluc/chon supplements. (When I broke my knee, I took one of my dog's Cosequin DS to help cushion and relieve pain--it worked. BUT, I had to stop. It stabilized and made the knee so tight, I wasn't able to make any progress in therapy and bend the damn thing. Ran out of Cosequin and immediately gained 20 degrees range of motion--incredible.) First-hand knowledge, 4pack. Can't get any better than that. My young guy is one of the long, leggy types. Even has a slight roach. He's a fast runner--makes quick turns that amaze me--and has never shown any signs of HD (no limping or favoring). His front seemed stronger while maturing--but, his rear seems to be catching up. All I can do now is hope that he continues being healthy.

That is pretty amazing. Thanks for sharing.

I'm sticking true to Max's intention for the breed... working dogs, so your comment is out of line. Yvette & Ice von haus Cimmerian Too bad everyone does not do this! Have you all noticed the "extreme" roached dogs that people are trying to sell off here? I think many realize it's went too far and trying to find unsuspecting newbie people to buy them. While I am glad any dog gets placed in a good home it's not right in my opinion to sell inferior dogs as top showdogs.

All GSD's are beautiful in their own right. No such thing as an ugly one in my world.

All GSD has a right to be beautiful in their own world. I will breed only if I see improvement, try to stick to rules and breed only what will improve your stock...Thats how it all started... Let me see what you breed Clearwater and let us be the judge of that let... dont let yourself decide what OUR breed should look... Even if you're the S-V President, dont tell me all of you whelpings had been succesful or were they??? I one time ask a German neighbor of mine (from Murrenhutte breeders line) what do you do with dogs that DONOT pass KOER??? He said we give them to the POLICE..To the Army... So they can be evaluated and serve their race purpose.... That means OUR race's purpose is to serve mankind, NOT to give mankind a source of living by just breeding and then selling them... I make sure every pup goes to the right home... Yes they say CULL the litter... I say, If you are the one to be culled???, just like what HITLER did to JEWS... If you're not part of the solution, your part of the problem... EAST and WEST GERMANY already is one.. and you are a terrorist who belong to the SSS...SELF SERVING SELFISH..

DR, I am shocked every day I look at dogs for sale on this board. Even little puppies with backlines that are so roached they look deformed. Shame on anyone who tries to pass off those type dogs as breeding and show stock. One would have to have been born under a rock to lay down cold cash for a GSD that looked like that.

Blitzen, you've got that right! The sad part is only a small proportion of these dogs are being sold as culls because of their roach backs. Most are being sold as cull for other reasons. Bottom line is that the majority of these folks just don't get it and never will.

Marci, Can we please keep the Nazi stuff out of the discussion? That's way too emotional of a topic. You've made some good points, so don't detract from the conversation with that "Hitler" crap. Blitzen, I am with you, darlin'. The problem is that a novice buyer doesn't recognize the roached back puppies are bad. They log on the site, they see adult dogs with badly roached backs and assume it's normal. Even worse, show breeders are advertising these banana back pups as top show pups, very promising litter, etc. Yvette P.S. STILL haven't heard any show breeders expounding on the actual VIRTUES of a banana back and a crouching rear. Other than the profits from the puppies, of course. (Ouch - did I just say that out loud?)

One statement that I have heard way too often from show line breeders is that "a dog must have correct structure to work". My interpretation is that a dog with a V or VA show rating has a superior structure that enhances working ability. Therefore, the poor "ugly" working dogs that do not have V or VA ratings must, by implication, do NOT have correct structure to work. Ha!. I'm not buying it. In fact, I take exception to that! May I kindly suggest people look at the pictures of the historical Siegers and Siegerins. There were decades in the history of the breed when there was NO distinction between working dogs and show dogs because there were NO fluffy black and red roached back crouching rear dogs. This is a RECENT development. Furthermore, the Sieger and Siegerins look far better than the typical show stock flashing up on the "featured ads" pictures. Thank goodness that the top show dogs being selected by the judges are not as extreme as some of the hyena types for sale in the "ads" section.

SchHBabe, I see your point about novices not knowing about a roachy topline. I was assmuing that most could look at a puppy or adult with a hump on its back and wonder if there wasn't something wrong. It didn't take me long and I told both breeders I bought my GSD's from to not show me puppies with banana backs or parents with banana backs. Neither of my GSD's had them. I had experience with another working breed, so those toplines were the first thing I noticed about some of the imports. You're right, a novice dog owner might not know. A question, can a banana back always be seen in a puppy or can a pup with a flat backline develope one as it matures?