BIG heads, super dark sables, super hips. That is the problem - Page 12

Thanks Silbersee,
  I don't see any of the same relatives, she's real cute, and I love her name!



Here's a picture I just took today of my girl Sweet Caroline von Ryanhaus, she has really interesting markings!

Prager, I have had some of the dogs with Fox's markings. I know what you mean.. It's a distinctive facial pattern with a lot of lighter shading on the sides of the upper jaw, and an even, warm, almost orangey color going into the cheeks and on the legs. I didn't used to like this color / markings.. I thought it was "ugly". Since then, I have had experience with some of these dogs and have found them to be very hard, courageous dogs with excellent working ability. Not just sporty dogs but military sentry "manstopper" type dogs with a lot of work ethic. I have a bitch named Hesie with this marking (one of the reasons I picked her) and she's tough and produces excellent pups. I also have frozen semen from a dog ("Asco") who also had this marking and produced some awesome working offspring... Prodigies, really!!! People who knew what Asco produced swore by him. I hope to bring these two lines together in the next few years, and I think I will really have something very unique. Sort of a retro line. These dogs also are pretty large and have excellent bone and feet. Not as pretty as the real black sables with dark faces, but they are very interesting dogs. Almost all old DDR lines with a dash of W. German in the background, by the way.
Nice pictures of Fox!

Had to put my pup up tooo!!!!!   BUDVAR VOM HAUS MORRISSON -  10 Months old... I was never a "sable" lover... but I am now!

I just posted a photo of my puppy BUDVAR VOM HAUS MORRISSON... she is a product of show/working line breeding.

KitKat ... I did just what you mentioned... I bred BUDVAR.  Her mother is from a long line of show dogs (and she is a classic black & tan) and her father is a Czech dog (sable).  I LOVED this litter.  My previous litter was from all show line.  But with this litter I was presented with an opportunity to breed with a very nice Czech stud and this litter was more than I could have asked for... the pups are all extremely versatile and I had the most striking rich colors.  

I thought her Mom was the smartest dog I'd ever owned... but this female is proving to be even more intelligent and obedient (I didnt think that was possible).  I was always drawn to the true "classic" saddle back black and tan (or red) GSD.  If I hadnt bred this dog, I would have never considered her (because of her sable color).  Boy has she changed my mind.  Working lines have my full respect!

PRAGER:

Is this a test?

Should we have prospective owners calling up looking for uncertified hips, weak pigment, and pinched skulls?

If it is a fad, I would dare say it is a bloody good one and long time coming!

Freemont.

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Freemont, stop being such a trouble maker! People don't want to talk about that. They want post pictures and stroke each other. And here you go trying to talk about something interesting. Shame on you!

I believe that the issue Praeger brought up was that the current obsession with a handful of physical traits is harming the breed and it's sub-sets of working lines and show-lines.   The current fad for "big heads, superdark sables super hips and a few other traits has helped obfuscate many breeders from the goal of breeding towards the dog and not towards the fad-du-jour in the market.   That is how a gene pool becomes a gene puddle.

This is what I thought too, charlie319.  I am alarmed by breeders who breed for nothing but color (regardless of the color) and head size, a few specific traits they think will sell more pups. 

Silbersee I would never put you in that category.   It is well known that in both your working lines and your show lines  you are breeding quality pups  who just happen to be black, and sables (dark or not) and black and reds.

Breeding for the whole dog, and also keeping an eye on specifics seems to be the way to go. Finding a line that has not been over used....... if its still possible...... and trying to develop a line that are true to the breed description, with balanced temperament, healthy structure, good color and true workability should be the ultimate goal of each and every one if us.
 
Unfortunately, many people jump in for the quick bucks and breed for fads. Breeders also search out the handful of "super studs" and without looking at pedigree, and prodigy pay the big dollars....... This not only creates some disasters, but also creates many genetic bottlenecks.

Most of us don't understand genetics and have not studied the breed and therefor have no idea what they are doing. I'm included - that is why, before I even consider choosing a stud for my bitches, I ask very experienced people who have spent many years studying the breed to choose the right studs to use. I know of too many breeders who just go for the big name studs........... tisk, tisk..!

People like Hans have spent their lifetimes studying and understand the plusses and minuses of each line they are a great resource! Hans is the go to guy for Czech and many Slovak bloodlines, there are also similar athorities for german working, german show, american show and every other line ..... finding them is and listening to them of ultimate importance if we our beloved dog breed to survive.

I posed this question on another forum and got some interesting/ disappointing answers . Let's see what you guys think.

Assume a dog were perfect in all ways (mind and body), but had a floppy ear. Should this dog be allowed to breed?