Timmy von der bosen Nachbarschaft - Page 2

"Timmy looked ready to bolt at any wrong move by the helper"

I noticed that also & was not impressed. However was he nervous about the helper or the handller? Where top training techniques so bad
then that he didn't trust his handler as hadler appraoched?  

Mike

Line breeding on Fero brings the screaming, it was warned many many years ago. You will get a lot of extreme prey and many that can not cap their drives to the point of spinning and screaming in the blind. A dog has to be able to control itself.         Askia vom Froschgraben was a real nice bitch.

Fero and Askia were bred twice, two BSP in the first litter, and  to my understanding only 3 were even titled in 2 breedings.
In my opinion this was the beginning of the "sport dog" and the "ending" of the working dog. Sport dogs are just easier to train.
 

Dawulf, the unsureness and 'ready to bolt' shown by Timmy, looks like training issues. I might be wrong, but this was PRE-ecollar era. The remote corrections eliminated reactions in dogs, as seen in Timmy, which look to be caused by physically being corrected by helper and handler.....ie, helper whacks dog's head for dirty bite in blind, makes dog reluctant to go into blind for HB......during guarding, dog is watching his back as handler approaches AND watching any move by helper, lest he (the dog) gets clobbered by either for making an error.
I bet Timmy was a very prey drivey dog who needed constant reminders that he must wait for the bite, so was getting clobbered by both helper and handler to correct his overexhuberance. His high drive helped overcome, to a degree, the barrage of corrections. The remote corrections of ecollar, when done PROPERLY, have helped eliminate the conflict a dog had with handler and helper caused by their corrections on the dog. JMO

joanro 

you would wonder if these type of dogs would be used as much in breeding when youtube and facebook were available then

I saw the same as Mike D. To me, he looked more nervous about his handler than anything else. 

a very wise lady from germany taught me a very important lesson years ago & i will share.  she sent me pictures of a litter & asked me to choose the best one
or the one i liked the best.  i looked at them very carefully, gave it a lot of thought & tried to imagine what each pup was like based on their expression & the
way they carried themselves.  finally, i narrowed it down to one or two & responded to her.  she laughed & laughed at me.  "that's the problem with you americans,"
she said, "you look at pictures and all you are seeing is one fragment in time."  turns out the best pup in the litter was the one i paid no attention to.  i think she
purposely took its picture while it was peeing, just to prove a point.  i will never forget that.  it was a valuable lesson.  bottom line:  keep this in mind when you
are looking at posed photographs and clipped videos.  you are seeing only a fragment in time-----not the whole picture :)
pjp

I almost never watch videos for this reason. They can be edited, you never know what happened just before it was filmed...so many variables. Sure, they're better than nothing, but even buying a dog, while I would watch those videos, they would never be the only determining factor one way or another. 

Agree... Long uninterrupted video can be helpful, but even 3 hours on the training field and in the house ect. can not give you the whole picture. How about a 30 day drive test drive? That would be much better. Before my house fire I had some video of both Troll and Timmy. From what I seen on video in training Timmy was the better harder dog. I never worked either one or even seen them in person so I think most video is unfair to the dog and the viewer.

The "T" litter and Fero are used all thru the working GSD world. I worked a fero son for a Police man 20 + years ago who put you on notice it would not be a ''fair'' fight. I have seen this in sons and grandsons and so on. One good thread, which was here maybe 2 years ago, stated with 300 to 400 litters on the ground you will see good and bad out of fero, "T litter'' , or Yoshy. The breeder, handler, sportsman must get more involved than papers and video. What if the only video of George Foreman was the 6th round of the Ali fight? Can you sum up the man with that evidence. What about the 40 year old George F? Much must be said for a man who pulls himself out of adversity and reaches for a high level again. Can we blame Joe Fraser for Marvis Fraser ''glass jaw''?  I would say a lot about Joe Fraser's fighting ability came out of being the son of a share cropper born and raised in poverty in the deep south. Marvis f had the body, the training, the opportunity, but he was raised in the home of a [ then] wealthy Championship prize fighter.                                            We must get involved with many generations of the GSD to have a better idea of breed worth. The experience will guide us better than a snipet from a trial will ever can.