News Update of WHAT HAPPENED TO Athos vom haus Sevens and Vinetta von Karthago. Are they alive? - Page 30

Steve1,  I do have a husband.  A husband that a physical disability that he incurred while serving the Military.  Do I need to say more?  It seems that you know so much so why don't you help me?  Why don't you go and get him?
If it does not bother you to break the law and go to jail then go ahead you may even get shot and killed while going on some ones property but I know it does not matter to you.  Justified or not- you would be breaking the law.  What is so hard to understand?

Steve1, There are several possible reasons why the dog has not been returned to the "rightful or original owner"  Maybe there has been some form of partial payment for the dog, if so then a court of law will have to determine what the end results are of who owns the dog. Maybe no one knows the specific whereabouts of the dog, knowing an address and knowing the dog is there are two entirely different things.Getting someone to commit a crime on your behalf is not as easy as some seem to think, hiring an attorney to represent you in this situation would also be very expensive, if you could find one that would take the case.Even if you do hire an attorney,it would be a long drawn out procedure that has to run it's course through the legal system with no quick results. Any way you slice it there are laws to follow and consequences if you don't, not to mention that it will be expensive no matter what route you choose. Nobody mentioned that it is a mere dog, although I would say that's the way it is percieved since it was sold and shipped half way across the country. Of course I would have to say that anybody selling any dog that they professed to love would have the same perception of dogs in general. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with selling dogs, but I do disagree with selling a dog and professing to love that dog. I don't know the circumstances,but I know that I don't sell the things I love and if I were in a position where I could not keep the dog, A dog I truly loved, priorty one for me would be to get the dog in a home where I knew the dog would be loved and cared for in this situation money would not enter the equation. I've read several threads about Vicki and posts Vicki herself have started, suffice it to say it's been enough for me to have my doubts about her and certainly enough that I would never trust her. Who knows what the true facts are, I think only Vicki and Birgit so they will have to resolve this matter between the two of them in whatever manner they choose.                          Michael                         

Bhall
IT seems that you are not so fond of your Dogs as you make out to be i guess you did not give your Dog away for a start meaning you got paid for it otherwise it would still be with you. However what you will do to get your dog back and what i would do are two different things I would get it back regardless of any problems to myself and if i break the Law in doing so then i break the Law and i pay the price for doing it , BUT, i will at the end of the day have my Dog back with me, That is the difference between you and me and lots of others on this board.
I asked you if you had a Lawyer on the case THAT is within the LAW you did not answer it so i guess you have not consulted and employed a Lawyer all you are doing is wring on a Forum that My Dear' is not going to bring your Dog home, But right or wrong you have not put much effort in getting it home if you have not gone through the official channels, Let alone going to the place to get it yourself. My posts may seem harsh to some but they are the truth no matter what is said at the end of the day,  I speak it others may think it. AS regards your Husband serving in the military he is only one of us nothing great about that he came home, I came home a lot did not they are the ones i think about not those who came back we are no heroes just bloody lucky
Still to continue with this thread is pointless.
Whatever is said where a bit of effort has to be put in and a risk involved to save the dog or a bit of money spent it  falls on deaf ears. However i would never have allowed one of my dogs to get into a situation like this and if i did not knowing then i would gladly spend my time in jail or risk getting shot to get it back It will not be the first time i have dodged Bullets Lets just say i do not frighten at all
Steve1

Steve1,  You twist words around.  First I did not say my husband was a heroe.  I said he was hurt and can't do what he used to do.  It is not the fact that I need the dog back but I did not know Vickie would do these things.  Would I have known I would have never send a dog her way (Hessel).  Sam was supposed to go to Cindy but I still do not understand why Cindy will not get the dog. Many other people sold or gave dogs to her including a rescue.  I just believe it is not in the best interest of any dog to be with her.  So, Cindy gave Sam to Vickie.......  The money that Cindy owes me is not the issue but can I go after Vickie for it?  NO!!!   Can I take the dog from Vickie and justify it in court?  NO!!!
I do not disagree with you 100% but there are things that can't be done no matter what.

BHall
You read as you want to read I did not say your husband is a Hero To me anyway he is not he did a job of work just the same as i did and millions of others and in truth i bet he would think the same as i do it was a JOB nothing more.
 What i DID say was that those of us who came home were NOT heroes i was not thinking of your husband in particular when i wrote it and that includes me i am not a hero i came home, the Heroes did not.
However i am not getting drawn into that as it has no bearing on the thread and as regards to your Dog that this woman has of yours then you are not a good judge of people, You let your Dogs go so it is not much good having a conscious now,
 Still you have not said if you have employed a Lawyer to get her back so i guess you have not so what is the point of this thread, No amount of talking on here will get the dogs returned, YOU still do not understand if the Dog was mine and i hold its papers then the Dog is mine and if i get the dog away safe then that dog is mine and i have done what i set out to do that was to get it back home.
NO court can make you give the Dog up if they do not know where it is and you refuse to tell them as i would.
So what is the worst scenario, They send you to jail for a couple of Months with a slapped hand, Is that not worth it to get your Dog home safe, Well lady i think it is if i were in the same postition as you and i would take the sentence then come home to be with the Dog.
One last thing, i would make sure the media got hold of the story and all would come out into the open and i sure would make it as embarrassing as possible for the one who had my dog and for the court who put me jail, i would have my time in getting my own back and i am not a vindictive person by nature but if bitten i bite back twice as hard
Steve1

I suggest to all who have a stake in this....get off this forum and do something productive to remedy this situation....whatever that may be:-)

I think that those of us who are in Europe forget a) the difference in size and travelling distances in the US. b) that firearms laws and prevalence are very different to Europe. So I can understand that it seems so much easier perhaps in my mind than in reality it probably is for you.

Having said that I do agree that talking just isn't going to solve this, and I have to agree with Steve again - I would do what it takes, I could never live with myself if I did anything less.

Bhall, your plea for Hessel to 'forgive you' really touched and damn near broke my heart. But, please don't end up having to make the same plea to Sam.

There are ways and ways, not all out and out illegal, but all require action - real action. I think you have loads of support in the US on this board. Maybe it can be used. Perhaps you can come up with ideas and a plan (by PMs).

I kept hoping to read that Sam was home, now I dread reading that Sam is dead.

Steve1

Still you have not said if you have employed a Lawyer to get her back so i guess you have not so what is the point of this thread, No amount of talking on here will get the dogs returned, YOU still do not understand if the Dog was mine and i hold its papers then the Dog is mine and if i get the dog away safe then that dog is mine and i have done what i set out to do that was to get it back home.
NO court can make you give the Dog up if they do not know where it is and you refuse to tell them as i would.
 

I am sorry I can't put all my cards on the table!!!

BHall
Sorry but you are just blustering along hoping that the one who has your dog will give it up and i guess the other Lady is of the same mind, Personally and i do not care what you think of my comments is that you are playing out a drama on this Forum. 
You have evidently sold the Dog at some point and after trying to read through the myriad of posts you are still waiting to be paid for the animal so as you have not gotten the remittance you then want the Dog returned.
Well I think your thoughts are far removed about the Dogs welfare but the money takes priority, and if you got the Dog back i would give 100 to 1 that you would then at some point re sell it
Now saying all this i do not give a damn if you take umbrage over what i have said for i am overall disgusted at the way you have cried on about the animals welfare. This is my last post on this but i truly hope the Dog finishes up in a good home well away from the one holding it now and also from yourself.
Steve1

Steve1,  you are infact an ass.....  I am not here to please you.  I did not start this conversation neither did you.  You need to stick your nose where it belongs as you only know part of the story.  Why do I care about the money when I offered Vickie $3500 to buy him back just to get him out of there?  You tell me.  Yes, I offered Vickie CASH money so that Sam could be in a better place.  You just have no clue.  I am not playing out drama.  I am trying to keep concerned people informed as there are people that care.  Makes me wonder about you.