Timmy von der bosen Nachbarschaft - Page 4

A dog that falls apart under correction or even shows much stress or anxiety from handler corrections is not desirable in my book.

haz, to save embarrassment i suggest you delete the post above if you can, if it is not self evidently stupid to you then i am not sure a dog is what you are looking for.

LMAO at VK4.

Troll was used more, but more often than not, those old enough to remember them well will say Timmy was the better brother, brought more aggression. 

My linebred Timmy dogs don't scream, period,  as an aside. That litter's sire is linebred on both Askia and Fero, so the pups go back to both Troll and Timmy, linebreeding on Timmy. My Troll/Timmy ones OTOH......don't scream, but I can tell by their vocals they could be pushed that direction without too much difficulty. I can see the potential there and think with a lesser "nerve base" for lack of a better term, the tendency to be vocal could easily develop into full-blown screaming. And no, I'm not saying all screamers have weak nerves. I'm just saying the differences I've seen in my own very similar litters linebred on the brothers. Capri carries Timmy but not Troll. I can still remember Steve Lino on the phone telling me that if I had to have one of them in a ped (which is pretty much usually the case!), while Troll was used more, that was "because people were too stupid to see that Timmy was the tougher brother," or something very very close to that. LMAO.   

RLHAR...OMG.....My girl is EXACTLY like that. EXACTLY. So, when my IPO trainers asked me to use prong and e-collar to "polish" things up..I refused. She corrects with voice and will default back as well (using down). She tries hard to please.  If she is corrected harshly, her work becomes hesitant (and not fun to watch) for fear of making a mistake.  But, her nerves are strong. She is just handler sensitive....

I will add that Beckett only screams when he is totally stressed, that is when he is left behind. He never screamed on the training field. But his litter mates had that spinning, screaming thing in the kennel too, which was corrected with the ecollar, which I have never used. These were serious dogs, imports, that did well in Germany but not so well over here, for whatever reason. Possibly the offspring were sold to folks like me, who never had the opportunity to develop their dogs potential. I know more than 1 pup from Becketts litter had hip problems. I never, though I tried, was able to correct that screaming in the kennel, but I won't use an ecollar, so we can put that down to handler inexperience....I didn't mean to imply that ALL Timmy progeny were screamers....just that at least I know it came from somewhere....
jackie harris

smiley, good for you!  lots of folks can't anylze drives, thresholds & levels of sensitivity separately.  also, good for you in stickiing up for
your dog when you knew better than the t.d. what sort of correction your dog could take.  they always resort to what they know rather
than what's good for your dog & lots of dogs get screwed up that way :)
pjp

devils advocate; Might the video of Timmy show a dog waiting for stimulas from the helper at the find blind? It might show bad preperation for the trial. When the dog gets no ''stim'' he looks elsewhere for it. By the end of the routine he is focused on helper [ long bite helper] even as the handler approaches. devils advocate again; smiley; be certain not to allow a dog to escape pressure by showing faulty behavoir. Proper pressure is important.The  amount of pressure, timing of aplication, and type of pressure utilized must be evaluated. I get a little concerned when I hear ''they'' wrecked the dog's Obedience and then hear you brag about the protection. Did ''they'' have anything to do with the protection phase? 

For those that are against using e-collars on their handler sensitive dogs:  You are making a big mistake and throwing out your most valuable tool.  E-collars take the handler out of the equation.  WHEN USED PROPERLY, dogs respond to e-collars with much less stress and learn much faster.  The problem with e-collars is the same problem that we have with guns... people are so scared of them that they never take the time to learn how to use them properly and that is when mistakes happen and people/dogs get hurt. 

 

Forget these videos. I am wondering what was Timmy/Troll like when they wern't busy catching the sleeve? Were they kennel dogs or did they have a family of their own? How was their temparament outside the Schutzhund field?

Finally a thread with experienced folks responding! Thank You! As many have stated the dogs from this era must be judged by the eyes and expectations from that era. But still, many dogs then and now are ruined by over training for points. How many of us would like to be judged from a 3 minute video and then concidered garbage for life. I personally like to see training videos of dogs instead of competition videos. You must judge on a complete body of work. In order to see what a dog is like when not training one must visit the club or home of the dog. I personally like dogs that have a bit more edge, some independance, not always under foot. Sometimes a kennel name can give you a clue "Nachbarschaft" :)