Country of Origin - Who breeds the better dog - A civil discussion ;-) - Page 6

Whoa.   I suggest anyone who thinks Keith does not have a wealth of knowledge regarding both working and show line GSDs, genetics and schutzhund, first do a search of his name on this message board.  Personally I have learned a lot from Keith.

Red Sable, I would also like to hear that... Also, I don't know much about AKC-style breeding and showing, but I thought that specialty shows tended to reward the more extreme GSDs (as opposed to the all-breed ring). Am I wrong??

In 30 years of breeding CSMHMO placed a couple of GSD's in Law Enforcement, detection work no less.  I think that pretty much sums up the American Show Line GSD pretty well.  But they achieved what they wanted in their breeding program, dogs that won in the Am show ring.  I wonder how many litters they bred and how many pups were produced over 30 years, for only 2 to actually do what the breed was meant to do. 

And I will make a prediction that Hayabusa will never be SchH titled.  Not for lack of a club nearby, but simply because it has been bred out of the dog and lines for so many generations.  If CSMHMO is interested in doing SchH I can recommend a good breeder in the states to buy a nice pup that will work.  It will not be Am lines though.  You see the people that want dogs that can work know where to go and what breeders breed strong dogs. 

Jim

My first Shepherd was 3/4 American Lines (most not too far down from German) and 1/4 East German (he was imported before the wall came down).  He had bloodlines to Scootie Sherlocks Caralon's Phantom Le Barland
So so so so so beautiful and masculine.
I went to a show in 1994 and met Scootie Sherlock.  She looked at Shadow and said, perfect working line, beautiful feet.  The kennel names from the American lines all came down to Schulenhaus and Desert.  Primarily German style for the pet market.

  That is Shadow on the right, 1994 1 year old.
  David Nebelholz DDR, a Don Rolandsteich son.


Michele

Hayabusa is not a youngster. 
It would be nice to hear from this breeder for  a response to the people that posted.
Dawn

Red Sable, I would also like to hear that... Also, I don't know much about AKC-style breeding and showing, but I thought that specialty shows tended to reward the more extreme GSDs (as opposed to the all-breed ring). Am I wrong??

No, Molly, that is correct.

I was going to say, I believe that Hayabusa is almost 12 or 13.

I will admit that it would be nice to see Am line dogs that could go back to doing it all (and working lines for that matter).

I still have not found a GSD that I could use as a service dog (as in mobility/guide work), a sport dog, and a show dog.

I believe the breed is very versatile, not necessarily each individual dog.  I think it would be unrealistic for a dog with the qualities needed to be a good guide dog to also be expected excel in sport, though most likely in any given well bred working line litter there will be some pups more suited for sport and/or police/military work (higher drive) and some pups more suited for guide type work (lower drive).  As far as show dogs, that's not my thing, so I can't speak to it.

When I say sport, sue, I mean AKC agility and obedience as well as tracking.  Not SchH (just clarifying :))

My current service dog is a delightfully drivey bugger and his intensity is wonderful, but when he's in harness he is incredibly placid while remaining alert and attentive.

ah sorry Xeph my bad, you know me and my one track mind!  That's very cool about your current service dog.  I can see it working out for you, because you know how to handle dogs, including sporty models.  I have a question for you:  Do you think the average person who needs a service dog would be able to handle, or even want to handle a dog like yours?  I'm thinking the average Joe is maybe better equiped to handle service dogs who are satisfied with the work, and don't need an additional outlet for their energy?