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by Doppelganger on 25 June 2010 - 12:06
Abby what makes you think the KC will stop giving CC's for GSD's? The CC allocation is based on the number of dogs entered over the past few years. As many have already said on here, they will still show at KC shows, and those of us who don't want to go down the breakaway route for whatever reason will still be showing at them as will the Alsatianists if they can get their judges appointed.
Ok they may reduce the number of CC's allocated, maybe not a bad thing with the cost of entries etc. Don't forget that some of the clubs will lose them anyway because they did not sign the agreement. Therefore the remaining clubs will have the CC allocation split between them. The numbers would have to fall dramatically for them to lose many. My other breed has 18 sets a year and entries at shows now down to only between 15 - 30 for most shows, which we feel is far too many to be meaningful.
Ok they may reduce the number of CC's allocated, maybe not a bad thing with the cost of entries etc. Don't forget that some of the clubs will lose them anyway because they did not sign the agreement. Therefore the remaining clubs will have the CC allocation split between them. The numbers would have to fall dramatically for them to lose many. My other breed has 18 sets a year and entries at shows now down to only between 15 - 30 for most shows, which we feel is far too many to be meaningful.
by Abby Normal on 25 June 2010 - 12:06
Doppelganger
This thought ocurred to me as a 'what if' thought, as the level of entries to the shows seem to be dropping quite dramatically, and if this continues to happen in the future, fewer and fewer CCs will be awarded. The future will be 'the last few years'. Got me to thinking how this would affect the GSD if it were to happen. I sincerely hope it doesn't, because I am hoping to see some really good prospects come through in the future (along with mandatory health testing which I am convinced will be introduced).
With the KC's attitude to the GSD, and if their plan to 'kick the breed into shape' fails, it seems to me a possibility, so I postulate it as a future possibility. Additionally, in other threads, people are talking of not attending certain shows, because of the judging issues, which is also causing a huge problem and will also discourage entries.
Although people have said they will continue to show at the KC shows, I wonder, if certain awards are withheld, as is happening, that will continue. So if the germanic type is penalised at KC shows, will anyone with a germanic type bother? I know that I wouldn't want to enter knowing I had no chance at all.
With the GSD 'in the spotlight' I just wondered whether the KC may abandon it if things don't go according to their plan. Make an example of it if you like. Perhaps I am just being paranoid.....and thinking aloud.
This thought ocurred to me as a 'what if' thought, as the level of entries to the shows seem to be dropping quite dramatically, and if this continues to happen in the future, fewer and fewer CCs will be awarded. The future will be 'the last few years'. Got me to thinking how this would affect the GSD if it were to happen. I sincerely hope it doesn't, because I am hoping to see some really good prospects come through in the future (along with mandatory health testing which I am convinced will be introduced).
With the KC's attitude to the GSD, and if their plan to 'kick the breed into shape' fails, it seems to me a possibility, so I postulate it as a future possibility. Additionally, in other threads, people are talking of not attending certain shows, because of the judging issues, which is also causing a huge problem and will also discourage entries.
Although people have said they will continue to show at the KC shows, I wonder, if certain awards are withheld, as is happening, that will continue. So if the germanic type is penalised at KC shows, will anyone with a germanic type bother? I know that I wouldn't want to enter knowing I had no chance at all.
With the GSD 'in the spotlight' I just wondered whether the KC may abandon it if things don't go according to their plan. Make an example of it if you like. Perhaps I am just being paranoid.....and thinking aloud.
by Doppelganger on 25 June 2010 - 12:06
Its only the extreme English who withhold for reasons other than temperament or soundness, there are still plenty of judges who appreciate good dogs even those who are, dare I say it, 'middle of the road'? How many of the people on this site have turned down judging appointments offered by KC licensed shows? Not many I dare say.
by Videx on 25 June 2010 - 12:06
Katrina Doble: (the professional anonymous KC worshipper) You have some significant and convenient mental 'blind spots' as well as your 'anonymous cowardice" - can you imagine what people would do with an anonymous letter from you? Your points are lacking any credibility, you have absolutely no credibility, you are quite simply a NOBODY. Not meant to be offensive just factual.
Many people throughout Pedigree Dogs here in Great Britain WRITE THEIR OWN PEDIGREES.
The GSDL/WUSV Events will attract an overwhelming majority of GSD exhibitors.
"recognition" is exactly what will be given to GSDL/WUSV Titles. The most important recognition by the GSD community and the GSD World.
Your placing of the KC on a pedastal is so very sad and also ridiculous. They are clearly past their sell by date.
The future of our GSD Show scene here in the UK is definitely away from the KC.
Many people throughout Pedigree Dogs here in Great Britain WRITE THEIR OWN PEDIGREES.
The GSDL/WUSV Events will attract an overwhelming majority of GSD exhibitors.
"recognition" is exactly what will be given to GSDL/WUSV Titles. The most important recognition by the GSD community and the GSD World.
Your placing of the KC on a pedastal is so very sad and also ridiculous. They are clearly past their sell by date.
The future of our GSD Show scene here in the UK is definitely away from the KC.
by Abby Normal on 25 June 2010 - 13:06
Doppelganger
The implication of one or two statements made on this board were that reasons for withholding were because of type. I woudn't have thought that they would have entered under an extreme english type.
Of course the consideration we are missing is that withholding could be due to the quality/soundness of the dog, in which case that would be fair. I feel it is still likely to discourage entries though.
I hope you are right about the judges, and that my worries don't materialise.
I rarely respond directly to Videx, but just this once I make an exception.
Videx (professional arsehole)
As always you are so far off base it is laughable. Yes you do mean to be offensive LOL.
what on earth have anonymous letters got to do with anything? You think you know who I am, so why go on about anonymous cowardice????
So don't we all know about writing pedigrees? How often do they turn out to be suspect? But that's another story...... So everyone will be writing an 'unrecognised' title on their pedigrees, playing true to form. Bet you won't add 'unrecognised' though will you? The future built on a house of cards.
You can rant, flim flam and shout - still doesn't make any difference, since what I have said is a fact. True to form, you don't address the real issue - about 'official' recognition. Don't you think people see through your bluster? Give them credit for some intelligence, even if you don't credit me with any.
Why is their no official recognition for WUSV/GSDL exhibitors? Followers of the new style deserve it. I am not saying the KC have to recognise it, I can't see that happening in a zillion years, but what about the SV or FCI??
Think I'll go and enter my BC in that splinter show now, and get me a trophy.
The implication of one or two statements made on this board were that reasons for withholding were because of type. I woudn't have thought that they would have entered under an extreme english type.
Of course the consideration we are missing is that withholding could be due to the quality/soundness of the dog, in which case that would be fair. I feel it is still likely to discourage entries though.
I hope you are right about the judges, and that my worries don't materialise.
I rarely respond directly to Videx, but just this once I make an exception.
Videx (professional arsehole)
As always you are so far off base it is laughable. Yes you do mean to be offensive LOL.
what on earth have anonymous letters got to do with anything? You think you know who I am, so why go on about anonymous cowardice????
So don't we all know about writing pedigrees? How often do they turn out to be suspect? But that's another story...... So everyone will be writing an 'unrecognised' title on their pedigrees, playing true to form. Bet you won't add 'unrecognised' though will you? The future built on a house of cards.
You can rant, flim flam and shout - still doesn't make any difference, since what I have said is a fact. True to form, you don't address the real issue - about 'official' recognition. Don't you think people see through your bluster? Give them credit for some intelligence, even if you don't credit me with any.
Why is their no official recognition for WUSV/GSDL exhibitors? Followers of the new style deserve it. I am not saying the KC have to recognise it, I can't see that happening in a zillion years, but what about the SV or FCI??
Think I'll go and enter my BC in that splinter show now, and get me a trophy.
by jaymesie51 on 25 June 2010 - 13:06
If the gsdl/wusv were to introduce some sort of title for our breed just wondering how we could work it as we have 2 adult classes one for dogs with working qualifications and one for adults with no working quals would a judge for instance give the top award to a dog with no working qualifications over dogs with them now this is just a thought so dont shoot me i just think that it could case problems for judges from abroad.
jim h
jim h
by Doppelganger on 25 June 2010 - 13:06
Not all of us know who all the judges are or what type they like. Some will enter because it is their local show, or because they think (obviously mistakenly) that the judge will be honest and they will get a fair opinion of their dog. Some have even thought they would try to show misguided judges what a correct dog looks like! I have seen judges from the English side withhold from dogs who have won well under all rounders and breed judges just because they are not extreme English. Every judge who withholds should have to say in their critique what was so wrong with the dog that it lacked sufficient merit (the ONLY acceptable reason for withholding). It cannot be coincidence that almost every time a judge witholds in this breed it is an 'English' judge and a 'Germanic' bred dog! Add to all this the number of previously 'English' judges who have come over to the 'dark side' in recent years, ok maybe not extreme Germanic but either using German dogs or their offspring. At one time there were English and German types, as one very experienced person in the breed said to me last night there are now English, German and Lornaville!
by Abby Normal on 25 June 2010 - 14:06
Yes, this judging is a problem and most certainly will not help with the current situation with the GSD. You are right. Any judge that withholds should have to provide a written critique to state exactly WHY, but am I right in thinking KC judges are not required to provide any form of critique.
I always considered 'English' type to mean more middle of the road, with less exaggeration either way. But now, alsatian has come to typify 'Lornaville'. True what he said. Bizarre.
That's a good point Jim. One would assume that top honours would have to go to the dog with 'it all' Can't see how if you had two excellent dogs that you could award to the one without any working quals.
I always considered 'English' type to mean more middle of the road, with less exaggeration either way. But now, alsatian has come to typify 'Lornaville'. True what he said. Bizarre.
That's a good point Jim. One would assume that top honours would have to go to the dog with 'it all' Can't see how if you had two excellent dogs that you could award to the one without any working quals.
by missbeeb on 25 June 2010 - 14:06
It's not news that the KC's main revenue is from registrations, however, if there are fewer and fewer KC shows because numerous breed Clubs are running their own.....................get the picture?
We are not so small in number and these wins / places / gradings, by recognised judges are important to us. More important recognition? Everything in time... much is in hand. You may regard recognition by the KC as paramount... many of us do not!
Why do you care... is this some sort of "release" for you Ab(by)normal? You certainly sound like Dingo / Jo Public! Too dreary!
by noddi on 25 June 2010 - 14:06
I havent been on here since early this morning.boy has it been busy.sorry David but i think the posts by Abby Normal are very relevant and to the point and make for interesting reading and much deliberation.IMO.I do feel that the germanic side of the breed and by that i mean those who have the resources to send their animals to germany for their manwork training /koreung,ARE NOT CONSIDERING those who cannot ,or those that do not wish to go down this path.i would say that most exhibitors will still enter kc shows as well as the new style shows.when i eventually obtain a new youngster i would be interested in doing both.some DO NOT WISH TO EXHIBIT AT THE GERMAN RUN SHOWS,and before yu start with that inferior dog crap,stop and think of others.not all middle of the road exhibitors have crap animals,do they if yu were to be honest.i ,for one think that the fall in entries is down to 2 factors,finances and facey judging.i can recall 2 instances this year where i have thought that the winning animal did not deserve to win.Abby Normal ....excellent posts on here today methinks.Alsatianist have always withheld placings to germanic dogs regardless of quality ,soundness or temperament.its done purely because of the backlines.they even describe the slightest sloping topline as being roached,anything that doesnt have a sagging backline,long back and corgi legs is a roached back germanic type.at an open show a few years back,the alsatianist judge whispered to one competitor that his dog had only 1 goolie.excuse me but this was a female who happened to have a strong ,although feminine head.i was told by a judge at an open show(the original foreign judge had been taken ill at home)that the thing that was wrong with my bitch(btw.last in the class of 4,rest of english types)was that she was too friendly.uhm.just coz she didnt back off????see wot we mean here.i am hoping that next year that most of the gen.ch.show judges are those who have breed /advocate the correcter type of gsds,but do not show anymore.i am certain that the main culprit to the demise in entries is the face judging,then financial .
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