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by Jenni78 on 28 August 2011 - 16:08
What's "disclousure"? I mean, even in OK, I've never heard that word.
by Red Sable on 28 August 2011 - 16:08
Who's kissing ass?
Certainly not me, I have absolutely no blinders on where these kennels are concerned. I've seen enough shady shit, thank you.
Certainly not me, I have absolutely no blinders on where these kennels are concerned. I've seen enough shady shit, thank you.
by Jenni78 on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
MIA, thank you for fixing that. Now I know.
Disclosure is essential. At the same time, when do people start taking personal responsibility for not doing their due diligence on things that are important to them? Assuming a breeder or seller places the same importance on the things you do is dangerous in any situation, when importing, it can be catastrophic. Again, it's easier to blame the big breeder/seller, but the buyer has to take some responsibility for not asking about things which are clearly very important to him. You have to look out for yourself, too, and can't always expect someone else to do it for you; as GSDPack said, they don't think of kennel names like we do. You have quite a cultural rift and yet another reason to be careful, ask questions, and make sure you're totally satisfied before sending money.
Disclosure is essential. At the same time, when do people start taking personal responsibility for not doing their due diligence on things that are important to them? Assuming a breeder or seller places the same importance on the things you do is dangerous in any situation, when importing, it can be catastrophic. Again, it's easier to blame the big breeder/seller, but the buyer has to take some responsibility for not asking about things which are clearly very important to him. You have to look out for yourself, too, and can't always expect someone else to do it for you; as GSDPack said, they don't think of kennel names like we do. You have quite a cultural rift and yet another reason to be careful, ask questions, and make sure you're totally satisfied before sending money.
by desert dog on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
I've been trying to stay out of this untill Hans and Wade has a chance to work it out. I've never considered Wade any thing less than my good friend, while at the same time I also consider Hans a good friend.
Jiri I have met, seen him work dogs, set in a seminar teaching the breeding, raising, and training of the Ps dogs, and his theory on dogs now. I have had dogs all my life, and I'm not real young and Jiri Novotny is the most intelligent man on dogs I have ever met period.
Wade is, and just talk to any one that has gotten dogs from him the most honest guy I know that owns a dog. I know one person that bought a dog from him and called and explained the problem which will never hurt the dog in any fashion as far as working ability. At the same time is genetic. It only last for a short time. Wade told the guy he would either refund all his money or exchange it for a pup from another litter and deliver the pup several states away.
The client wanted another pup in case he decided to breed later if he turned out well. But they loved the pup they had already had. Wade hauled the pup by car several states away to deliver the new pup. when he got there they were explaining how much they liked the first pup, and Wade said you guys can have both of them. The guy tried to pay Wade for his trip and he said no, I stand behind my dogs. The guy gave him a envelope when he left and it had 200 dollars in it to pay for his gas.
Every breeder should always have the same respect for his clients as Wade does. If Jiri, Hans, or Wade, or anyone else expressed to me he wanting something representing my breeding program for possible future breeding, He would get what I would consider the best I owned.
This probably would have been settled over time, and since I have known about this for months, it is not just the name, or crooked ear. It is over all representation of a top prospective dog to be used in a breeding program. And note the word "Prospective". Things can happen, but would any good breeder that you hear from on this forum every day stating how they are such responsible breeders breed a dog that was questionable from the start. I doubt if they did, would ever admit it.
As for all the groupies, and cheer leaders that jump to the defense of one or the other, maybe you should wait untill you hear both sides, instead of being like the want a be school kid who watches some one get whipped and when he knows the guy is beat down, runs in and takes a shot at him.
hank
Jiri I have met, seen him work dogs, set in a seminar teaching the breeding, raising, and training of the Ps dogs, and his theory on dogs now. I have had dogs all my life, and I'm not real young and Jiri Novotny is the most intelligent man on dogs I have ever met period.
Wade is, and just talk to any one that has gotten dogs from him the most honest guy I know that owns a dog. I know one person that bought a dog from him and called and explained the problem which will never hurt the dog in any fashion as far as working ability. At the same time is genetic. It only last for a short time. Wade told the guy he would either refund all his money or exchange it for a pup from another litter and deliver the pup several states away.
The client wanted another pup in case he decided to breed later if he turned out well. But they loved the pup they had already had. Wade hauled the pup by car several states away to deliver the new pup. when he got there they were explaining how much they liked the first pup, and Wade said you guys can have both of them. The guy tried to pay Wade for his trip and he said no, I stand behind my dogs. The guy gave him a envelope when he left and it had 200 dollars in it to pay for his gas.
Every breeder should always have the same respect for his clients as Wade does. If Jiri, Hans, or Wade, or anyone else expressed to me he wanting something representing my breeding program for possible future breeding, He would get what I would consider the best I owned.
This probably would have been settled over time, and since I have known about this for months, it is not just the name, or crooked ear. It is over all representation of a top prospective dog to be used in a breeding program. And note the word "Prospective". Things can happen, but would any good breeder that you hear from on this forum every day stating how they are such responsible breeders breed a dog that was questionable from the start. I doubt if they did, would ever admit it.
As for all the groupies, and cheer leaders that jump to the defense of one or the other, maybe you should wait untill you hear both sides, instead of being like the want a be school kid who watches some one get whipped and when he knows the guy is beat down, runs in and takes a shot at him.
hank
by Red Sable on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
It's these ridiculously high prices that bother me. They imply a GREAT quality dog, and it just isn't the case. If I pay that much for a dog, I don't expect it to have a folded ear, (that was conveniently not mentioned at time of sale). I wouldn't even think of it having that issue, so of course I wouldn't ask, "Does this dog have a folded ear?" before I sent them my money.
Obviously it is impossible for the buyer to see the dog, so these BIG breeders must be totally honest in what they are selling. A buyer can only see so much, the rest is based on trust. That is where the big time breeders come in, obviously if they got that big, they can be trusted, yes? Well, apparently not now, maybe in the past which helped them get that big!
The name on the pedigree isn't as much of an issue to me, although, that should have been disclosed too.
Obviously it is impossible for the buyer to see the dog, so these BIG breeders must be totally honest in what they are selling. A buyer can only see so much, the rest is based on trust. That is where the big time breeders come in, obviously if they got that big, they can be trusted, yes? Well, apparently not now, maybe in the past which helped them get that big!
The name on the pedigree isn't as much of an issue to me, although, that should have been disclosed too.
by GSDPACK on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
That is why you should always buy an import through a reputable broker who will back you up. Yes, Novotny's son owns the shipping company but he still has to drive 4 hours to Frankfurt to drop off the dogs, get the vet certificates and put them on the plane. All that is NOT for free. Gas in Europe costs twice as much as here!!!!!!!!
He is the cheapest one and with pretty darn good service in Czech Republic.
Another thing, dollar compare to krown went down. What was 300 bucks is no more.. now it doubled. I do have to admit Pet Air prices remained pretty consistent throughout the years as I have used him numerous times over and over to ship dogs to US for my customers. He takes care of his business.
Hans did not breed the litter, he screwed up and the dogs bred, he dealt with the consequences. No excuses shit happens.
by Red Sable on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
Great post Hank.
by Prager on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
This pup is from the parents and pedigree, DOB and sex as presented by me AlpineK9 and JINOPO. Sable selected this breeding. The name is always given by the owner of the bitch. JINOPO does not own the bitch, and this bitch is not listed amongst the dog they owe, but the kennel od Roubenky does. Thus the pup is named by kennel of excellent reputation and name "od Roubenky" . It never crossed my mind that the name is a issue. I always though it is the genetics.
As far as the ear goes.
1.So far I have not seen decent picture of the problem. And I have asked many times. Yes I got some l=pictures which were taken from above thus the problem was not obvious. I have requested and am still waiting for picture from the front.
2. Ears grow funny way and eventually, that is after the scull finishes growing the ears usually straighten up. Dog is still young and final judgment on the ears can not be passed yet.
3. Normally I only do give just replacement. In this case it means that i would provide Sable with another pup. But when Sbale said that he want to sell the dog I have asked him how much money he wants. His response was that he will keep the dog .
4. On my website I clearly state that shipping to and from is a responsibility of the buyer. If anyone does not want to pay for the shipping then they need to buy a dog locally.
That is a standard for just about any buying and selling anywhere. Buyer always pay the shipping.
Wade i am sorry that you feel that you have to drag this here. However, like always, I have nothing to hide.
\Prager Hans
As far as the ear goes.
1.So far I have not seen decent picture of the problem. And I have asked many times. Yes I got some l=pictures which were taken from above thus the problem was not obvious. I have requested and am still waiting for picture from the front.
2. Ears grow funny way and eventually, that is after the scull finishes growing the ears usually straighten up. Dog is still young and final judgment on the ears can not be passed yet.
3. Normally I only do give just replacement. In this case it means that i would provide Sable with another pup. But when Sbale said that he want to sell the dog I have asked him how much money he wants. His response was that he will keep the dog .
4. On my website I clearly state that shipping to and from is a responsibility of the buyer. If anyone does not want to pay for the shipping then they need to buy a dog locally.
That is a standard for just about any buying and selling anywhere. Buyer always pay the shipping.
Wade i am sorry that you feel that you have to drag this here. However, like always, I have nothing to hide.
\Prager Hans
by vomlittlehaus on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
Wade, I wish I had the money for the pup. He looks like a nice pup to me and I would offer him a great home. Sorry you are feeling bad about the situation.
by GSDPACK on 28 August 2011 - 17:08
Hans,
http://www.youtube.com/user/mountainlakekennels1 check out the video, you can see the ear. It is not very clear but it will give you an idea
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