News Update of WHAT HAPPENED TO Athos vom haus Sevens and Vinetta von Karthago. Are they alive? - Page 7

OK Keith, different people have different goals. Yours is not to be on a mission to improve the breed nor to make a buck off your dog (as Vickie's is). But the thing is, let's not forget who the real culprit is. Don't blame the victims for being scammed, no matter how tempting it may seem. Heck, we could cure pedophilia by outlawing children, but that would be kind of missing the point.

People who "dump" dogs don't go to the extrordinary lengths that Veronica went to and that Brigitt is going through to get  their dogs back.  That speaks volumes about the kind of people they are.  My hat's off to both of them. 

The fact that you choose not to ever sell a dog is a personal choice, Keith.  There is not a thing in the world wrong with selling dogs, there are many legitimate reasons for doing so, and thank goodness, because not EVERYBODY is inclined to raise a dog from an 8 week old puppy.  

I have no problem with proper commerce in dogs - after all, it's the only way the GSD ever arrived in America in the first place.  I also see no problem with someone selling an older stud to someone else who wants to introduce new lines into their breeding program, or a young bitch when they already have a similar bitch, or reducing their kennel when they run into family issues.  It's all fine and good to blather on as a pet owner about lifetime homes, but the reality is that many perfectly responsible breeders buy and sell dogs.

The problems discussed here don't stem solely from the fact that people sold dogs, it's that they unwittingly sold dogs to a scumbag.  I personally never cared for Vickie's know-it-all act or her rush to attack business competitors like Hans.  I also wondered how someone could rebound so quickly from having to dump nearly all her dogs the year before.  But to hold the sellers responsible for her acts and omissions with the dogs in her custody and control pushes the blame far wide of the true mark. 

I can see buying an adult dog that has already been trained and/or titled, etc. but the rate at which some of these dogs are shifted around from place to place and person to person is ridiculous.  Yes, dogs can adjust to new owners but should they have to do so several times during their lives?  Is it in the best interest of the dogs or is it really just to satisfy the wants of the people involved?  How are these dogs lives any better than a dog who spends its life in and out of shelters over and over again?

I understand that many so-called responsible breeders buy and sell dogs, DD, but is there no limit to what is reasonable?  Don't bitch at me for pointing out that the dogs are nothing more than livestock to many of the people here if they're treating them as such.

You probably SHOULD be bitched at for pointing that out on this thread. Start a new one. In the meantime, this thread is about two specific dogs who were sold because their owners had health issues and were unable to exercise the dogs any more.

Keith - the answer is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I'm sorry for the dogs, being tossed around like the valuable commodities that they are considered, not the companions they should be.  BUT, it is a fact that in this case obviously the people who sold the dogs were not intentionally selling them to a scumbag - they were conned just like the person who gave scumbag the  money to buy the dogs, and now they are doing what is right in pursuing every avenue possible to get the surviving dogs back or making sure they are safe.  Sometimes the best of us are forced to learn the "hard way".

This only solidifies my own opinion about selling adult dogs for breeding purposes - I don't.  If I have a dog in my program that is my dog valuable to my program.  He or she is not for sale.  If I decide the dog isn't valuable to my breeding program, then he or she either stays here, or if I find the right home (family home where dog lives in the house and is spoiled and loved for the rest of it's life) then off it goes - spayed or neutered or no papers, not rehomed for breeding.  No, my older females are not sold to someone for "one last litter".  Because this is what happens when people pass around dogs that are used for breeding - they are worth $$$$ for breeding, they are not worth anything personal to the breeders, and so they are used over and over again, and tossed away when they are not useful anymore, by the scumbags.

molly

Well, look at say the dog Athos: born, raised and kept in Europe; sold to one owner in Alaska where he stayed for a number of years until the owner experienced health issues; sold to another (proxy) owner in Oklahoma.  Is that excessive?

As to dogs being livestock, why yes they are in every legal sense of the term.  And unless we want the PETA freaks to have the final say in determining whether we can even keep them, it's best to continue viewing them that way - better a thousand Vickie Lanigs than that!

DD, so right. I have felt the same way about her since I first encountered her. Her attitude just rubbed me wrong from day 1.

Keith, I am having the same issue right now. Long story short, I feel like shit, can hardly take proper care of my dogs and my son, but am afraid of what a few would be used for if I sold them. So, the only ones who have left have gone to local families or people I knew personally- people whose dogs I have seen, whose homes I have seen, and people who I trust not to exploit them. I shudder to think where Capri could end up. She's made a nice reputation for herself in a short amount of time; I can just see her in a kennel, churning out litter after litter until she's 9 years old. Caleb isn't a particularly nice dog, and many people don't like him, so I never considered selling him anyway, but the few times it's crossed my mind that maybe 'Pri, young as she is, would be better off somewhere else, I think of threads like this and figure she's better off here or given to someone I trust w/out papers than being sold for the valuable commodity she is.

I have no problem w/the responsible selling of dogs. This isn't the thread to discuss that.

I think the only thing Veronica and Birgit are guilty of is trusting someone w/out enough research, and no one knows that better than they do now, and thankfully they're doing everything they can at this point to get their dogs back. Hard lesson to learn, but hopefully, this will save another dog and owner a similar heartache.

RIP Hessel.

Please remember the title of this thread as well as the original posts.  This thread is to remain within the  confines of the  topic as outlined in the original posts.  If you would like to discuss the pros and cons of selling adult dogs, please feel free to start a new thread.

Thanks,
-zmod