Lionel van't Struweel 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2362782-lionel-vant-struweel

Link to the pedigree above

Are you saying the dog is a showline X WL cross bred 3-4 on Nick??  Looks like a WL X WL (KNPV) cross to me .. please explain

The 2014 WUSV Universal in Slovakia female class was won by Oliver Guiess from France. I was there competing with my 2015 GSDCA Universal Siergeren Gipsy vom Rosenschlag IPO3 KKla.

It was a wonderful performance and Olivers bitch is a cross. This is however not the norm, that is why I am a proponent of the Universal Competition. It pairs the best IPO3 working dog with a show performance to get the "Total" animal.

Geiss Oliver was the handler, female dog winner was Gipsy du Niclausenholz

http://en.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/1014795/Gipsy-du-Niclausenholz

 

 

I owned a SL x wl female 3 years ago. She was a disaster and that's a fact.

You don't need to be a scientist to know you don't breed a plow horse to a thoroughbred and expect bigger race horses.

Both lines have been inbred separately for generations. Both have been inbred for different purposes. That creates prepotency.
The first generation of such a cross between even exceptional individuals is generally a dead end. Even if you end up with a good one (possible I have seen them) their utility as a breeding animal is compromised by the weakness in his genetics that will show up in preceeding generations.

That's why as a stud Lubeck was a flop.

That's why a guy like Schaub (inbreeds on his own dogs and uses his own dogs) doesn't just go and use any SL male on his females..he uses Quardes.

Strange right? They all come from the same place in the beginning..

This is something all animal breeders have known for generations. Strong to strong. Weakness ca skip a generation but will always come back to haunt you.

This is a locally bred 3 years old female I am trying to buy, 3/4th work line 1/4th show. Look at her, you can see how good her conformation is. Gustav would be impressed with her if he could touch her, walk her. play with her and WORK her on sleeve. This female was bred by a illitrate owner, no knowledge of pedigrees, lines or whatsoever, if that person was lucky, a professional breeder with some knowledge and some luck can do it with consistent results, no?

 

I know she needs excecise and needs to loose some weight. Look how good her body is, her temperament and bite is much better yet.

 

 

 

 

Ibrahim, you cant escape who you are as a GSD fancier...no one can really. The FIRST thing you mentioned about the dog was its confirmation, its looks, NOT its temperament, its drives or nerve, it was its looks. 

The sport dog crowd also does the same thing, except, the other way, they are more concerned with the working aspect of the dog then the looks. I just talked to a friend of mine who said to me, after being in the GSD for close to 40 years, " The breed is not in danger, people still breed GSDs, I have no idea why anyone says otherwise. People also breed show dogs, but, they are not a GSD, they are show dogs, a different breed". As I have said many times before, "that boat sailed long a go" and the two breeds will never be one again, there is too much money and pride and ego in the way of both, take care my friend.

Haz .. has your disaster got a name and a pedigree .. let's see it .. remember facts not opinions .. some pics would be nice as well

Hired dog if you have some dogs to illustrate your point it would be appropriate .. otherwise is your's an opinion??

Deacon12 and Ibrahim seem to have a clear illustration of a WL X SL that was very successful in sport although sport is not the yardstick of success.

Hessel from O'Donnell's had many IPO 3 titles ( Sch 3 ) and was a dog on the Netherlands WUSV team .. he produced crazy drive pups which could not be used except for police, breeding, or protection dogs but they were pretty much all crazy as a bat.  I have one female who is a daughter ( Ivana vom Mystical Haus ) and a SL X WL cross and I also had one daughter (Eva vom Mystical Haus) who was working line X working line ( Hessel being the sire ).  The WL X SL dog is a much better female than the WL X WL dog.  She is better in every way, better head, better conformation, better mother, and better to live with.  Hessel brought great athleticism and crazy drives but at the cost of the offspring having a very volatile mind and a personality that made them annoying to dangerous around strangers or children. Hessel's offspring had to be bred to a dog with outstanding strength of mind to bring the ship around .. if anything Hessell produced dogs with too much drive and yes such a thing does exist.  Hessel doing a Sch III routine and if you watch there are some tells that Hessel's spring was wound too tight.  Before everyone tells me Hessel was fine and dandy please note that he passed through breeder's hands like a hot potato once he was imported to the USA and met an early death under questionable circumstances.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=541984-hessel-from-odonnells

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=654626-ivana-vom-mystical-haus

I gave EVA away because I was concerned what her offspring would become .. the ones I know of are excellent dogs for sport or police but nothing else.  The idea that sport and police dogs are the best of the best amuses me as much as saying football players are all nice people or cops are all good people who want to serve the public .. all of these groups sport, police, football, and cops have very good and some very evil and psychopathic individuals in their ranks.  Again .. the SL X WL cross using the same crazy SOB sire Hessel was better than the WL X WL breeding in every way .. I have other dogs from Eva's maternal side and Eva was not like them nor am I aware of other dogs from Eva's maternal side that had Eva's mental defects.  Eva belongs to someone else so if you want to look at her pedigree feel free. 

 

 

Bubba, I did not mention any particular dogs, however, every thread you get involved in that slams LE, military or anything working K9 is indeed your opinion, so, I am free to express my views.

I do not slam the dogs .. perhaps the people who present themselves as all knowing about those or any other GSD dogs and have nothing but opinions to share.  Arrogance and stupidity exist on both sides of the WL and SL divide.  I have WL and some have gone into police and Law enforcement as well as sport but I do not pretend they are the best that I have bred or the best type of GSD.  If you or Haz have real dogs with pedigrees to talk about please have at it.  Everyone else has shown examples but you and Haz.