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by Videx on 12 July 2010 - 23:07
NOW T RUTHURTS & JJ
PERHAPS YOU WILL ANSWER MY QUESTIONS
1) WHAT IS THE ADDRESS OF YOUR GSD WEBSITE?
2) WHAT IS YOUR GSD BREEDERS KENNEL CLUB AFFIX?
3) WHAT ARE THE KENNEL CLUB NAMES OF THE GSD YOU OWN?
4) WHY ARE YOU SHIT SCARED OF REVEALING THIS INFORMATION?
I just love it that you are afraid of me.
when the authorities enforce a system on these boards to reveal anonymous persons identities - retrospectively
be afraid - really be afraid
ha ha ha ha ha
PERHAPS YOU WILL ANSWER MY QUESTIONS
1) WHAT IS THE ADDRESS OF YOUR GSD WEBSITE?
2) WHAT IS YOUR GSD BREEDERS KENNEL CLUB AFFIX?
3) WHAT ARE THE KENNEL CLUB NAMES OF THE GSD YOU OWN?
4) WHY ARE YOU SHIT SCARED OF REVEALING THIS INFORMATION?
I just love it that you are afraid of me.
when the authorities enforce a system on these boards to reveal anonymous persons identities - retrospectively
be afraid - really be afraid
ha ha ha ha ha
by JackieJ on 12 July 2010 - 23:07
Napoleon when you tell the truth to us all about the named dogs below and no lies Napoleon, plus why did you remove your affix from El Devino.
Bygoly El Devino From Videx
Videx Luigi
Rocky vom Haus Tepferd
Zasko Von Santamar
Remember now no lies the TIME TO COME CLEAN is NOW.
JJ
by Videx on 12 July 2010 - 23:07
'JJ' the eunoch
NO BALLS
AND CLEARLY A "RETARD"
by Wildmoor on 13 July 2010 - 00:07
t.ruthurts not sure where you are getting your info from when you state 3 out of 6?
you forgot Videx Remo Von Bretforton he was scored 3/7 on 8/10/08 I presume you are talking about the Zamp > Bungee litter?
not bothered checking others when incorrect info given out
you forgot Videx Remo Von Bretforton he was scored 3/7 on 8/10/08 I presume you are talking about the Zamp > Bungee litter?
not bothered checking others when incorrect info given out
by JackieJ on 13 July 2010 - 08:07
Napoleon I/We refer you to the above post.
And as for no Balls, well I went to bed with none and woke up with none, now the clue to that is in my name fool.
JJ
And as for no Balls, well I went to bed with none and woke up with none, now the clue to that is in my name fool.
JJ
by Abby Normal on 13 July 2010 - 09:07
I am guessing that t ruthurts may have meant Luigi and one does have to wonder why he would go to all the bother of taking him to Germany to be scored rather than pop down the road to his pet vet and zip the plates off to the BVA! Having said that, currently German scores are allowed so he played the system, but didn't do anything wrong. Other than morally that is.
I don't know how out of date the KC Health test page is, but I can't find Rudi on there at all. Interestingly, I can't find the (48 score) bitch in question on this database either, although other dogs from the same breeder appear. Deliberately trying to hide what took place?
This thread has brought out some interesting points, illustrating (as has been proven) that the German system is not equivalent to BVA grading and therefore any dogs with German health tests (not only imports) should be re-graded under the UK system, and that this should be a requirement for both breeding and showing under WUSV/GSDL (and this should be for elbows too). This should also be the case for German breed surveys, as they will have used non BVA scoring, they too should have to undertake a new UK breed survey.
Unfortunately, I suspect that none of this will be taken on board, as the pressure from breeders against it will be too intense for them. So, it will be a case of 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'. And who pays the price - AGAIN - the dogs and the future of the breed.
So I ask what action do the GSDL intend to take against breeders that do what Payne has done and knowingly breed from unhealthy dogs? Is there a plan..a constitution that breeders and exhibitors have to sign up to, and clearly stating the penalties (and there should be penalties) if they are proved to have disregarded it? Where is information published on the result of each and every UK Breed survey undertaken? Since this too has been called into question. All of this should have been in place long before now if the league are serious in their intent to provide a future for the GSD.
The future of the GSD (with the WUSV/GSDL)cannot be just about having lovely German style shows, it needs to address these issues and they should be in place now. Perhaps we can hear from someone from the League on the particular issue of the 48 score breeding? (But I won't hold my breath) it seems that Payne has some influence there, and there was I thinking of joining - uh oh, not now! What then was the point of it all, other than to hold the Germanic style of show and have some fun?
The silence from Paynes usual little band of defenders has been deafening, and I get a sense of turning a blind eye coming on from the showing community. Can't put this one down to 'passion for the breed' can we? Look the other way, and eventually it will go away, as usual, and more dodgy practices will continue. Nowt changes.
BTW Payne the spelling should be 'eunuch'.
I don't know how out of date the KC Health test page is, but I can't find Rudi on there at all. Interestingly, I can't find the (48 score) bitch in question on this database either, although other dogs from the same breeder appear. Deliberately trying to hide what took place?
This thread has brought out some interesting points, illustrating (as has been proven) that the German system is not equivalent to BVA grading and therefore any dogs with German health tests (not only imports) should be re-graded under the UK system, and that this should be a requirement for both breeding and showing under WUSV/GSDL (and this should be for elbows too). This should also be the case for German breed surveys, as they will have used non BVA scoring, they too should have to undertake a new UK breed survey.
Unfortunately, I suspect that none of this will be taken on board, as the pressure from breeders against it will be too intense for them. So, it will be a case of 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'. And who pays the price - AGAIN - the dogs and the future of the breed.
So I ask what action do the GSDL intend to take against breeders that do what Payne has done and knowingly breed from unhealthy dogs? Is there a plan..a constitution that breeders and exhibitors have to sign up to, and clearly stating the penalties (and there should be penalties) if they are proved to have disregarded it? Where is information published on the result of each and every UK Breed survey undertaken? Since this too has been called into question. All of this should have been in place long before now if the league are serious in their intent to provide a future for the GSD.
The future of the GSD (with the WUSV/GSDL)cannot be just about having lovely German style shows, it needs to address these issues and they should be in place now. Perhaps we can hear from someone from the League on the particular issue of the 48 score breeding? (But I won't hold my breath) it seems that Payne has some influence there, and there was I thinking of joining - uh oh, not now! What then was the point of it all, other than to hold the Germanic style of show and have some fun?
The silence from Paynes usual little band of defenders has been deafening, and I get a sense of turning a blind eye coming on from the showing community. Can't put this one down to 'passion for the breed' can we? Look the other way, and eventually it will go away, as usual, and more dodgy practices will continue. Nowt changes.
BTW Payne the spelling should be 'eunuch'.
by kesyra on 13 July 2010 - 09:07
According to the Breeds Records Supplement AJ4 the Videx 'R' litter scored as follows:
Videx Rakell 6:4
Videx Remo 3:7
Videx Razor 2:5
Videx Romin 2:3
Videx Rudi 6:3 (I think you will find that Rudi is not on the KC site as he has been exported)
Videx Rakell 6:4
Videx Remo 3:7
Videx Razor 2:5
Videx Romin 2:3
Videx Rudi 6:3 (I think you will find that Rudi is not on the KC site as he has been exported)
by Sue B on 13 July 2010 - 10:07
For Your Information
To those who are unaware, for whatever reason, a lack of knowledge, a lack of information or simply that it suits their purpose to believe one way or the other, here are the irrefutable facts.
1. As far as those I am aware of, there are as many dogs attaining acceptable scores under the KCBVA hip scheme yet have gone on to fail the SV HD scheme, as the other way around. It's just that the many of you would be unaware of this, since the majority of you do not have access to the relevant information or simply don't bother to do correct research before displaying your ignorance on this forum.
2. For GSD;s the German system of HD, ED gradings and DNA proven, as in the Working Tests and Koerung is recognised and accepted WORLD WIDE, the KC/BVA & UK BC Survey is NOT.
3. In order to undergo HD, ED and DNA tests in Germany the dog HAS TO BE IDENTIFIED by Microchip before a Vet will even start proceedings. The KC/BVA system does NOT !!
4. In addition to the 'a' stamp grading, the German System produces a Breed Worth score which is updated on a regular basis, this helps breeders to spot the sires and dams that although might have a good 'a' stamp grading themselves , are not , or their siblings are not, necessarily passing good gradings onto their progeny. The Uk has no such assessment.
5. For those who want to exhibit their dogs on the continent it is essential that the dog has gone through the SV HD, ED and DNA proven system. ANY dog can be entered at Uk KC shows.
6. For those who may be exporting there dog to an oversea;s purchaser, the chances are this new owner would want the dog, to have undergone the same Universally accepted Health tests as noted in item 5.
7. The German SV have the facility and data to PROVE Pedigree Parentage via their DNA test, the UK Kennel Club DOES NOT. In addition the dog has to undergo a DNA test in order to attain an SV Keorung, the UK Breed Council Surveyed dog DOES NOT.
8. The German SV Health testing facilities give breeders the opportunity of comparing and evaluating the results of their breeding stock with hundreds of thousands of dogs throughout the globe. The KC testing scheme can compare with those living in or bred in this country but then as we are all too well aware, not ALL Breeding stock in this country ARE SCORED and therefore available for comparison.
9. The German SV Keorung tests give breeders the opportunity of comparing and evaluating the results of their breeding stock with hundred of thousands of dogs throughout the globe. The British Breed Council Survey is minuscule in comparison and once again not only does it not compare all UK Breeding stock, it doesn't even compare all UK Show stock !!
10. For those who visit the continent quite often, the cost of undergoing the German SV HD, ED and DNA tests are almost half the price of those charged for the same service in this country. For those who might have 2 animals to test, the savings made cover the cost of a weekend in Germany. For those with 3, 4 or more animals to test, you get a long weekend away free of charge as well as save money (by way of it costs you so much less than here).
Continued below
To those who are unaware, for whatever reason, a lack of knowledge, a lack of information or simply that it suits their purpose to believe one way or the other, here are the irrefutable facts.
1. As far as those I am aware of, there are as many dogs attaining acceptable scores under the KCBVA hip scheme yet have gone on to fail the SV HD scheme, as the other way around. It's just that the many of you would be unaware of this, since the majority of you do not have access to the relevant information or simply don't bother to do correct research before displaying your ignorance on this forum.
2. For GSD;s the German system of HD, ED gradings and DNA proven, as in the Working Tests and Koerung is recognised and accepted WORLD WIDE, the KC/BVA & UK BC Survey is NOT.
3. In order to undergo HD, ED and DNA tests in Germany the dog HAS TO BE IDENTIFIED by Microchip before a Vet will even start proceedings. The KC/BVA system does NOT !!
4. In addition to the 'a' stamp grading, the German System produces a Breed Worth score which is updated on a regular basis, this helps breeders to spot the sires and dams that although might have a good 'a' stamp grading themselves , are not , or their siblings are not, necessarily passing good gradings onto their progeny. The Uk has no such assessment.
5. For those who want to exhibit their dogs on the continent it is essential that the dog has gone through the SV HD, ED and DNA proven system. ANY dog can be entered at Uk KC shows.
6. For those who may be exporting there dog to an oversea;s purchaser, the chances are this new owner would want the dog, to have undergone the same Universally accepted Health tests as noted in item 5.
7. The German SV have the facility and data to PROVE Pedigree Parentage via their DNA test, the UK Kennel Club DOES NOT. In addition the dog has to undergo a DNA test in order to attain an SV Keorung, the UK Breed Council Surveyed dog DOES NOT.
8. The German SV Health testing facilities give breeders the opportunity of comparing and evaluating the results of their breeding stock with hundreds of thousands of dogs throughout the globe. The KC testing scheme can compare with those living in or bred in this country but then as we are all too well aware, not ALL Breeding stock in this country ARE SCORED and therefore available for comparison.
9. The German SV Keorung tests give breeders the opportunity of comparing and evaluating the results of their breeding stock with hundred of thousands of dogs throughout the globe. The British Breed Council Survey is minuscule in comparison and once again not only does it not compare all UK Breeding stock, it doesn't even compare all UK Show stock !!
10. For those who visit the continent quite often, the cost of undergoing the German SV HD, ED and DNA tests are almost half the price of those charged for the same service in this country. For those who might have 2 animals to test, the savings made cover the cost of a weekend in Germany. For those with 3, 4 or more animals to test, you get a long weekend away free of charge as well as save money (by way of it costs you so much less than here).
Continued below
by Sue B on 13 July 2010 - 10:07
Continued from above post
So to those who appear to think we should only embrace OUR BRITISH SYSTEM, please read the above 10 points very carefully and then come back and explain to me why? See IF you can then come back with TEN EQUALLY GOOD REASONS why you think the British System is better, as presumably the best system is surely the best one to use, Yes? Sometimes I wonder if any of you engage brain before spouting your ridiculous beliefs, accusations and falsehoods on here.
Regards
Sue b
So to those who appear to think we should only embrace OUR BRITISH SYSTEM, please read the above 10 points very carefully and then come back and explain to me why? See IF you can then come back with TEN EQUALLY GOOD REASONS why you think the British System is better, as presumably the best system is surely the best one to use, Yes? Sometimes I wonder if any of you engage brain before spouting your ridiculous beliefs, accusations and falsehoods on here.
Regards
Sue b
by Videx on 13 July 2010 - 10:07
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