BIG heads, super dark sables, super hips. That is the problem - Page 4

prager,just love this thread.all these photos of beautiful looking shepherds.i am in the uk and am a show person.yes yu right,the colour of most of the show dogs here on the international type is black and gold(reddish if possible)although there are quite a few now who are using sables,which is the colour i want for my next puppy.i always had and bred black and gold.the last time i had a litter(7 yrs ago)i used a sable male as i wanted a sable bitch.guess wot,i got only 1 sable and great it was a bitch,then slowly the truth dawned on me,SHE WAS A LONG COAT.guess i was being rewarded for all those years of breeding only for b/g.i did keep ,yes yu,ve got it ,a b/g girl,but she has rewarded me big time.she has won at top level and has nearly got me a champion title(2 Challenge Certif0.yu need 3 of those in the uk.to make ones dog a champion.this will be her last year as she is now 7 and i dont intend dragging her round the show ring next year looking for her 3rd cc if she dont get it this year.please keep the pics coming.thank yu.Carole.p.s. i too think that reddish coloured dog has been tweaked.did hear a rumour that they were dyeing the dogs in germany.how true it was,dont know????it just doesnt look right to me.

I am with you 4pack....I REALLY REALLY want a solid black male. I am crossing my fingers that I will get one from my next litter.  If I get one GREAT!!!! If I dont, then I wont pass up all the other pups because I didnt get what I wanted. My main goal is for a nice all around pup. My main concern is drive, temperment, conformation.


The black sables are VERY nice looking and I really like how they look. But to me there is more than just the "color" of the dog. The dog must have a good pedigree, good conformation, solid temperment, good hips and elbows...etc. But the dog must have good pigment...whether that be the black sable DDR dogs, the black/red showlines, or the darker sables and blacks from Czech or west working. We all have our preferances on color but must not forget the "whole picture". Afterall, this is a working breed first and formost and we must not forget that. When I say "working" I am not just saying Schutzhund. There are other things that the dogs can do.....whether it be tracking, obedience, rally, agility, SAR, PSA, Ring Sport, Police K9, etc.

When breeding the breeder MUST not just breed for one thing. We all have our preferences on what we breed. For me, I prefer the Czech dogs. For others it may be DDR.....WGR workinglines....WGR showlines...etc. Yeah the dog might be a big blocky headed black sable racoon-eyed dog....(not putting them down, I actually really like the look)....but can the dog, whether it be a male OR a female, produce that consitantly and also produce pups with sound temperments, good hips/elbows, nice conformation, and good working drives, and also pups that have no genetic faults(color, longcoats, bad hips or elbows, bad temperments, etc)???

Good post Hans! I didn't care what color ANY of my dogs were when I ordered them. And I don't care that my very small (60 pound male) at 3 years old doesn't have a huge head, or that he's not a dark, or black sable.  Or the heaviest bone structure... He is fast!!!
And he loves to work. Amazing drive and a fast learner. AND he has a super stable disposition ;-)
That's my boy Galan with my 3 year old son in the first picture
I have to admit that I was somewhat disappointed at first when my 5 month old bi color female has started getting a lot of gray in her coat, but she has such a full, calm grip for a puppy and smarts! I wouldn't trade her for the richest colored dog out there! Indi is in the second picture    -Stacy

Goran. No dark Sable, But a little Cracker all the same, Hips A normal 
Steve1

Izzy 8 month old again no Dark Sable but has all the apptitude for working that you could want in a Pup
Plus i think everyone breeding these dogs should make the Question of top Hips and Elbows of  paramount  importance in there breeding program
Steve1

Melanistic B&T on left and Sable on the far right.
Syd and Haley

Melissa

Here are Virgo, pre-limb good hips(ofa), Sam, good hips according to 3 diferent vets that have done tons of hip x-rays, Theo fair hips(ofa), Mira good hips(ofa)--I am also checking eyes, thyroids, hearts and testing for DM.
I like a nice stable temperament in a dog, everyone can greet people that come over, without needing to hide them away, Theo had a ninety year old lady give him a bear hug & put her face right into his,he's a therapy dog, that's what I'm looking for, yet if you come in my yard unannounced, you will get bit in your butt, unless they know you, then you can just throw a stick to them!

I like dark pigments, dark eyes, good ear carriage, I dislike seeing white toes or have a white foot, and big white spots on their chests.

 Mira is 9 years old and her mom (Millie) is 12 years old still going strong.....



Better picture of Virgo, she has nice rusty color to her legs & face, she's the smallest GSD I have ever owned,
weighing in at 65 pounds.



Tessie's son "Rollie" at 6 months



(I could go on & on so there's way more pictures on my site...)

www.vonryansgermanshepherds.com

Below, Tessie close up,

I have discussed this recently with fellow dog enthusiaists. If we aren't careful, we will end up with snub-nosed brachycephalic dogs. But at least they will be black sable with DDR lines.

And hips I think are such a big deal, because they are the one thing that buyers can get a simple yes/no on. Are they A-stamped/OFA'ed or not?
and since we are posting pictures... here is my DDR/Czech puppy (whose father and full brother are black sable)....

 

gagsd4, I agree I call them Grinch dogs because they remind me  of the Grinch movie with Jim Carey LOL I agree with you and Hans, we only run in to trouble when you breed for one or two traits that are the fad at the time. It doest take long to destroy what was a great line with poor breeding choices JMO

esco gila van de duca vallei( amigo zamatXgila waji)