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by jaymesie51 on 24 June 2010 - 18:06
Goldie12 you sound like a KC rep, first things first the name of this breed is German Shepherd Dog that is it,,the country of origin is in the title of the breed (clue not british) health of this breed is down to the breeders who hip/elbow score heam test etc and this is where the KC can and should make a difference by refusing to register stock from untested animals and to make health testing mandatory not voluntary,but they refuse to do so, lose hocks/cow hocks will be sorted by our judges if and when they are seen just like any other faults and i am sure with the new wusv type shows gaining ground this will happen,, at least we know that all adult winners at these shows will have passed all current health tests which is a very important part of doing things the right way, maybe you can tell me just exactly what the KC has done to benefit our breed because for me the answer is nothing everything that has been achieved in this breed has been done in spite of the KC not because of them the only thing the KC are interested in is MONEY
jim h
jim h
by Goldie12 on 24 June 2010 - 19:06
Jim H
I can assure you I am, and have no wish to be a KC rep.
Whilst I applaud all in the breed that health check, now, and those that have done so for a number of years, WHY ?? if these dogs are all health tested are a number of them still so unsound behind that some people have branded them cripples. We have all seen the footage haven't we and nobody can tell me those dogs were sound and of good construction, and i am assuming from what you say , those animals were health checked. mmmmmm
The name of this breed in THIS country is The German Shepherd (Alsatian) you may choose to call it the GSD thats your choice, it has been accepted as the breed name for a very very long time and should remain exactly as it is IMO.
I am far more concerned about the toplines, poor fronts, cow hocks, etc etc
Time will tell.
I can assure you I am, and have no wish to be a KC rep.
Whilst I applaud all in the breed that health check, now, and those that have done so for a number of years, WHY ?? if these dogs are all health tested are a number of them still so unsound behind that some people have branded them cripples. We have all seen the footage haven't we and nobody can tell me those dogs were sound and of good construction, and i am assuming from what you say , those animals were health checked. mmmmmm
The name of this breed in THIS country is The German Shepherd (Alsatian) you may choose to call it the GSD thats your choice, it has been accepted as the breed name for a very very long time and should remain exactly as it is IMO.
I am far more concerned about the toplines, poor fronts, cow hocks, etc etc
Time will tell.
by Penny on 24 June 2010 - 20:06
Goldie12 says
! I think the KC should sort out the construction and shape of the breed first, this is a far more serious issue than what we call them."
Come on - get real...... the Kc are only interested in sorting out their paperwork, the animals come a very poor second to their lucrative business. This is not an opinion, this is proven by virtue of the fact that they have been asked for YEARS not months if they will consider registering only pups from hip scored parents, have they ?
They then set up an accredited breeder scheme, whereby if you are part of it, you MUJST get your animals hip scored. Anything is acceptable, so Flash with a 106 hip score can still be bred from, become a Champion, sire squillions of KC registered puppies and the owner can stil be an accredited breeder.....
Goldie12 - do you still think that your criteria is more important.?
You also state that there are good and bad on either side of the type - of course they are, but the more you talk loose hocks etc and hold it up to be a life threatening condition above hip dysplasia, the more you sound like an original KC committee member. Loose hocks, whilst not acceptable or desirable, are being addressed, the KC and their lack of policy on health issues are not. Mo.
! I think the KC should sort out the construction and shape of the breed first, this is a far more serious issue than what we call them."
Come on - get real...... the Kc are only interested in sorting out their paperwork, the animals come a very poor second to their lucrative business. This is not an opinion, this is proven by virtue of the fact that they have been asked for YEARS not months if they will consider registering only pups from hip scored parents, have they ?
They then set up an accredited breeder scheme, whereby if you are part of it, you MUJST get your animals hip scored. Anything is acceptable, so Flash with a 106 hip score can still be bred from, become a Champion, sire squillions of KC registered puppies and the owner can stil be an accredited breeder.....
Goldie12 - do you still think that your criteria is more important.?
You also state that there are good and bad on either side of the type - of course they are, but the more you talk loose hocks etc and hold it up to be a life threatening condition above hip dysplasia, the more you sound like an original KC committee member. Loose hocks, whilst not acceptable or desirable, are being addressed, the KC and their lack of policy on health issues are not. Mo.
by noddi on 24 June 2010 - 20:06
the current poll position as at 9.20pm is.....YES429.....NO.327.Jim h i fear we may be flogging a dead horse here.Dog World may have had good intentions with this poll,but i dont believe we are getting the true picture.the true picture will come from votes made on a properly run poll by the breed clubs.one vote per person and only from members.how many members do yu think South yorkshire alsatian club and the uk club have.not as many as the league i bet and then we have all the other breed clubs under the umberella of the breed council.i would ask BAGSD,ONLY TO POLL GSD MEMBERS.All other breeds who are members SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN A VOTE AS IT DOES NOT AFFECT THEM........Goldie12,i dont mean to sound rude but i take it from your comments that yu have wot yu describe as an ALSATIAN.there are many shown down my neck of the woods here in the South East and believe me THEY TOO APPEAR TOTALLY UNSOUND.I have seen dogs winning who,s hind action has been atrocious.they are too overweight and wots worst not sound in temperament.there are alsatian champions that have several missing teeth.need i go on.i know and admit that all is not rosy on the german side,we do have some unsound and hocky dogs,but backlines on the whole are correct.THE NAME ALSATIAN WAS A MADE UP NAME(MADE UP FROM WHERE THEY WERE FOUND IN WW1,ALSACE)BY THE BRITISH AS AT THAT TIME BRITAIN WAS SENSITIVE TO THE NAME GERMAN.THERE IS NO SUCH BREED AS AN ALSATIAN,ALL ARE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT.Believe me i for one do not wish my animals to be known as an alsatian.ther are pure and simple german shepherd dogs and its about time this anolomy of a name was discarded by the kennel club once and for all and that the uk fall into line with the rest of the world.Carole Spelman......PROUD OWNER AND BREEDER OF RHEINMEISTER GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS(NOT ALSATIANS).
by jaymesie51 on 24 June 2010 - 20:06
Goldie12 there is no such dog as an alsatian it does not exist and shortly that daft name will be asigned to the annals of history. Loose hocks as far as i am aware has nothing to do with health tests You ask WHY we health test well that tells me every thing i need to know about what you think of our breed and i think you will find that the name alsatian has not been accepted here for many years its a name made up by the KC but you already know that being one of there reps
jim h
jim h
by noddi on 24 June 2010 - 21:06
I FOR CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THIS DOG WORLD POLL IS AN ACCURATE ASSESSMENT OF THE TRUE FEELINGS OF THE GSD FRATERNITY.BORDER UNION HAD A EXTREMELY LOW ENTRY...I THINK IT WAS 29 ANIMALS AND 7 OF THOSE WERE FROM THE GERMAN FRATERNITY AND 1 I WILL CLASS AS MIDDLE OF THE ROAD BUT I BELIEVE SHE IS OF CORRECT TYPE JUST NOT SHOWN THE GERMAN WAY.SO THIS LEAVES ONLY 21 ANIMALS.SURELY THE PEOPLE I WILL CALL AS MIDDLE OF THE ROADERS DO NOT WISH THEIR ANIMALS TO BE CALLED ALSATIANS OR DO YU?????Carole S.
by Goldie12 on 25 June 2010 - 05:06
Jim H
You need to read the post again, i actually said I applaud those that health test, and YES my dogs are, and will be health tested,
Why are you all so uptight about changing the name ?, a large number of you are wanting to pull away from the organisation you continue to call worse than poop, you have already started holding events away from the KC so whats the problem, go your own way and be happy.
It will be the people left under the KC banner that will continue to have issues, Judges will continue to put up unsound dogs, their mates,( who will return the favour at a later date) dippy & roach backs etc etc and unless addressed by the KC it will continue.
The KC and the name of this breed have been around for a long time, if it is decided to change it then, I will have to accept that , but i wonder what will be next on your agenda i wonder.??????
You need to read the post again, i actually said I applaud those that health test, and YES my dogs are, and will be health tested,
Why are you all so uptight about changing the name ?, a large number of you are wanting to pull away from the organisation you continue to call worse than poop, you have already started holding events away from the KC so whats the problem, go your own way and be happy.
It will be the people left under the KC banner that will continue to have issues, Judges will continue to put up unsound dogs, their mates,( who will return the favour at a later date) dippy & roach backs etc etc and unless addressed by the KC it will continue.
The KC and the name of this breed have been around for a long time, if it is decided to change it then, I will have to accept that , but i wonder what will be next on your agenda i wonder.??????
by jaymesie51 on 25 June 2010 - 06:06
Goldie12 the true name of this breed is German Shepherd Dog it has been called this since its inception and that is the name it should be called by, not the made up name alsatian, at the moment it is known in this country as German Shepherd Dog (alsatian) note the brackets and the sooner it is just German Shepherd Dog the better then the so called split in the breed will diminish the 1950's type should dissapear and all judges will judge to the WUSV/FCI standard as they do world wide Now i will say that it is the Alsatianists that are uptight about losing the word alsatian and not the GSD fraternity because if the word alsatian does not exist then the alsatian dogs do not exist that is why these breeders of the 1950's dogs are fighting tooth and nail to keep the word alsatian, next on my agenda would be to unite this breed, for breeders and judges to breed and judge the correct type to make health testing compulsary so only pups from tested parents can be registered and in doing so giving all pups born a better than average chance of a pain free life What is next on your agenda i wonder mmmmm.
jim h
jim h
by Goldie12 on 25 June 2010 - 06:06
Mo
Loose hocks ARE a serious problem for the breed along with the other issues, epilepsy, hips etc. If you or i had movement like some of these dogs then we would be seeing an orthorpedic surgeon for a double knee replacement and all the risks that go with major surgery.
Jim H.
The GSD(Alsatian) will always exist regardless of what is done with the name, as like on your side there are people faithful to that type and always will be.
I agree with uniteing the breed BUT I cannot see that happening in my lifetime, and how you do it ,with all the conflict from various fractions within the breed on both sides that cannot or will not see the bigger picture,mmmmmmm
Loose hocks ARE a serious problem for the breed along with the other issues, epilepsy, hips etc. If you or i had movement like some of these dogs then we would be seeing an orthorpedic surgeon for a double knee replacement and all the risks that go with major surgery.
Jim H.
The GSD(Alsatian) will always exist regardless of what is done with the name, as like on your side there are people faithful to that type and always will be.
I agree with uniteing the breed BUT I cannot see that happening in my lifetime, and how you do it ,with all the conflict from various fractions within the breed on both sides that cannot or will not see the bigger picture,mmmmmmm
by jaymesie51 on 25 June 2010 - 06:06
Goldie12 there is only one picture and that is the breed standard as laid down by the SV now if you do not want to breed to this standard then pick another breed (i do not mean you personally i mean all who do not want to breed to the breed standard) now if all these people got out of our breed then united we would be and i honestly think that dropping the alsatian name will be a huge start to achieving this.
jim h
jim h
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