how common is civil drive? - Page 4

agree to disagree

group hug......................

You Mo

While not commonplace, I don't think that they are too hard to find civil dogs in some bloodlines.  IMPO, and I have scads of those, a civil dog does not necesarily have to be mean (but they may have strong territorial and possession drives) and not necesarily not be allowed around children because they are not perceived as threats.  In my experience, these dogs usually have relatively low prey drives, don't suffer foolishness once engaged and when confronted could care less if the intruder/helper is wearing a sleeve, XIV century armor or skivies.  The dog will engage the helper and not the equipment because his agression is real, towards the person and not based on sport/prey training that equates the sleeve to a giant chew toy.  The one good thing about these dogs is that once the stimulus is removed, they stand down quickly as opposed to some prey-dogs that continue their agitation.

One more thing, many sport trainers don't like to deal with civil dogs because the dog is playing for keeps and they'd rather train prey-drive dogs.  Easier, quicker and not as risky.

Charlie, my point ecactly.. Maybe "being mean as shit" was wrong use of words but I think somewhat along the same lines. One of my old trainers has two bouviers, a male, and a female. Rock the male, bit me when he was 6 mos. old. Hurt like a b------!  Pretty bad bite, three fingers. I took the blame, it was my fault, didn't make the bite hurt any less, but from that point had to be cautious around that boy. Got ahold of the decoy one day, my bud, almost took his ring finger off. Only thing that saved his finger from being swallowed was that he was wearing his wedding ring. That dog is one of  two of the "baddest", "civilest" dogs, (whatever you want to call it) that I have seen with my own eyes. (Now the dogs at a kennel producing dogs for law enforcement, etc., those are also)

Alboe2009,

Slam,come on comment!


Nahh, I'm just going to read this thread and watch the responses.  It is very entertaining and makes me wonder.  

Jim 

Don .. if you present a video .. i would first like your commentary in your words .. and I will gladly reply with commentary in my words ...FOR NOW .. there is a video [ his last show] of recent .. by Caesar Milan .. his last show"
        there were two GSDs . one aggressed against the the other . Caesar told the owner  that the dog that aggressed " was trying to help the owner"in regars to the other dog ... WELL ...if you saw the show . that is not correct.. you would say " i think .. the dog aggressed in prey drive .. or the dog aggressed to be in defensive drive " .
          BUT .... caesar AND  YOU  would not have exactly stated what was going on . the dog Aggressed because : #  1. - the dog simply  could aggress [ owner shortcoming]  .... [ BTW would you say this dog was civil regarding the topic of the thread??]   ---- #  2. No the dog was not helping the owner .... the dog was helping herself . WHY .. because the dog looked upon the owner as it's resource.. the one that provided it's means to survival .. the dog thought it owned the owner in respects !! the action of aggressing  had nothing to do with the dog helping the owner.
         so .. now DON .. you talk in terms of "drives' . a thousand times i stated .. that is nondescritpive as to what motivates and what goes on in the dogs head.. so what so called drive do you say that dog was in. ? defense .. was it defending it's owner ...
   No .. not exactly .. it may perhaps been guarding it's owner .. a form of defense .. NUT how many words are you going to use >??> efense / guard ///// I say .. the dog was ensuring it's resource and thought it owned the owner >> THAT"S what was EXACTLY  what was going on in the dog's head !!

Alpha, I'm kinda confused. I don't see video and I didn't ask you to critique and explain a pet with issues. I asked you to do this with a sport dog on a field working.

Same commentary whether on the sport/ protection field ..  or at home DON ./ . canine behavior is canine behavior ... try this as once did 10 years old watching Mutual of omaha's wild kingdom .. t study the animals .. turn offd the sound .. then describe what you see , why you see it , how it is performed.. THAT will help you get into the mind of an animal .. and hence you will understand behavior !!